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Post by Head Mutant on Apr 5, 2004 13:17:03 GMT -5
Never said it wasn't hard. But just because something is difficult and I probably couldn't (or wouldn't) do it doesn't automatically make it worth my respect.
I equate that style of wrestling to real wrestling the same way I compare MTV's the Real World to the actual Real World. One is scripted, fake, but has just enough truth in there to try to pull your eyes away from the charade in order to entertain your disbelief, and the other is far more truthful, but probably less entertaining.
I think the problem most people have with WWE and its ilk isn't that it is fake, necessarily, or that they're showboating. As someone said before, it used to be a lot more enjoyable when we were kids and it was targeted to us. Mindless violence and overblown egos that dress like minor superhero sidekicks. But now that it seems this style of wrestling has shifted their demographic to adults who are equally supposed to swallow this *seriously*, that's when it becomes insulting to all involved. If it's entertainment, fine, I have no issue with that. But far too many people take it so seriously between crushing cans of beer on their forehead that they've long since forgotten that it isn't strictly real. And the performers feed off that and try to reinforce it all... when everyone starts ranting about how this is a "serious sport", and deluding themselves as to what it basically is, that's when the communal intelligence of people in these arenas take a severe nose-dive.
I don't mock anyone for liking stupid things or entertaining things; I like plenty of dumb stuff. But if I try to go up to people and convince them that the whole world of Star Trek really, really exists and I get so drawn in to my own deluded fantasy that I forget that it's just a show -- fun to enjoy and fantasize about -- then something weird has happened there. And that's what I see with WWE and many of its fans.
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Post by FiveMileSmile on Apr 5, 2004 13:17:31 GMT -5
Yes, both his books are excellent, but they're sequential, so read 'Have a Nice Day' first. Its a great book even if you're not a fan of wrestling; Foley is a really interesting, funny and incisive writer, and his stuff makes just a great autobiography.
Beyond the Mat and especially Wrestling with Shadows are both excellent watches as well. Including the infamous Montreal Screwjob (more Canadian wrestling history for the Poole). Worth watching if you get the chance.
- Rich
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Post by Hucklebubba on Apr 5, 2004 23:25:02 GMT -5
Never said it wasn't hard. But just because something is difficult and I probably couldn't (or wouldn't) do it doesn't automatically make it worth my respect. I knew this line of reasoning sounded familiar: Yay!Not that the repetition is any sort of bad thing. It's just, like, deja vu and stuff. Totally. It's not your vocabulary that's the problem, it's just that it's impossible to say anything without quoting some pro wrestler, somewhere. To wit: "Wolf brand, no beans." That's the catchphrase of WWC legend Hank "The Chilimeister" O'Leary. A wrestler best known for his Cheese Grater signature move. |
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Post by bladestarr on Apr 6, 2004 2:24:24 GMT -5
Oh what has become of my beautifully winded derailment??  Oh woe is me!!! |
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shawn
Mini-Mutant
Posts: 2
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Post by shawn on Apr 9, 2004 8:59:43 GMT -5
bottom line guys...its all real wheather its aimed at the kids or adults... its alll very real....just a little slice of entertainment dont change the act thast is real.........  |
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Post by PoolMan on Apr 12, 2004 12:01:55 GMT -5
just a little slice of entertainment dont change the act thast is real. Hey, is that Shakespeare? |
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HRCC04
Boomstick Coordinator
Captain Sassy Pants
Posts: 64
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Post by HRCC04 on Apr 12, 2004 12:49:08 GMT -5
Real? lol...sorry but the WWE is far from real wrestling, it is an entertainment game, it is very athletic, as the actors in the WWE have to stay in pretty damn good shape to do the things they do every day or every week for months and months, but its hardly real and id certainly never consider it a legitimate sport (the WWE type of wrestling, not actual wrestling which is an awesome sport)...
It's like stunt men, they alot of times have to be VERY agile, and in shape and able to do very tough and yes, even dangerous things...but just because a stunt man goes is blown out of a bunker on a movie set that looks like he's in the middle of a war does not make him a soldier, and does not mean that in any way shape or form could he actually fight a war as he is depicted as doing.
Same applies here, not trying to ruffle any feathers but the wrestlers in the WWE have even said themselves "We are actors here to entertain you, we are paid to perform great acts in which we appear to be fighting and we get payed to entertain you." If that doesnt draw the line in the sand between legitimate wrestling and the WWE style wrestling, well, i guess there is just no convincing then.
WWE is a show, it has actors (who could be called border line stunt people) who act like they are fighting, put on dramatic plays for people just as a person would on a broadway stage. They are certainly athletic but they are in no way real wrestlers, sorry...
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Post by dajaymann on Apr 12, 2004 13:00:54 GMT -5
Yeah, what he said.
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Post by Al on Apr 12, 2004 23:59:49 GMT -5
But being that it *is* entertainment, what is so wrong with being entertained by it? If you can watch and critique two great actors pretending to be in love and call yourself a film fan, why is watching and critiquing two great wrestlers pretending to be at each other throats suddenly downgrade the viewer to slack-jawed peon?
I no longer consistently follow wrestling, nor have I for many years, but I can still watch a match and applaud a particularly great exchange and mock a bad one. Great wrestlers are fun to watch, bad ones can be cringe-inducing, and seeing a green wrestler hone his skill over a period of time and being rewarded with a championship belt (which is basically winning an Oscar as opposed to a Super Bowl ring) can be just as engaging as following any other performer in a more 'respectable' line of work.
And don't get me wrong HRCC, I don't consider anything with a fixed outcome to be a sport in the same vein as baseball or football, but it's far more real than it's given credit for by most. Knowing how to take a hit with a chair without getting truly brained or deliver a piledriver without breaking your opponent's neck requires an impressive amount of skill, control, and physical excellence. It really can be like watching improv stuntmen: I find very little difference between applauding Mick Foley taking a twenty-foot dive through a table onto concrete and applauding the hordes of Isengard storming Helm's Deep. But that's just me.
Al
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Post by bladestarr on Apr 13, 2004 3:19:05 GMT -5
Isn't that true for all forms of media? ;D
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HRCC04
Boomstick Coordinator
Captain Sassy Pants
Posts: 64
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Post by HRCC04 on Apr 14, 2004 8:35:16 GMT -5
I absolutely agree that it is entertaining...and though not comparible to legitimate sports, like i said, i know for a fact it takes alot of physical endurance and just an over all athletic ability to be a wrestler in the WWE, ive watched that "Tough Enough" show enough times to know that when you bash your head on something, even though it might not kill you or put you in a coma, i bet it dont feel real good...lol.
I just find it funny when people think the WWE is real wrestling, which it is far from, it is like a soap opera with huge muscle overkill guys and manly women that like to pull off all clothes except panties and bras...and the whole point of the thing is to get your favorite actors into positions where you either love them or hate them...its a soap opera/boxing/Bar fight mixed drink.
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Post by PoolMan on Apr 14, 2004 11:32:57 GMT -5
manly women that like to pull off all clothes except panties and bras... And the men don't even keep the bras on! |
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Post by n1 wwefan92 on May 9, 2004 11:36:31 GMT -5
its my first time here wow ;D
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BDC
Ghostbuster
Posts: 372
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Post by BDC on May 24, 2004 10:28:34 GMT -5
Y'know what, I was mentioned in the first post, but haven't been active in this thread. NO MORE.
Bear in mind what I'm about to type works if you BUY INTO THE STORY. Mock the story and you MISS THE POINT. *glares at Pooly*
Rain Man was lauded as a marvelous film, right? Right? C'mon, agree with me. Well, the WWE has taken a similar route with a character named Eugene Dinsmore. Now, before you get on my back about being excited over a mentally handicapped wrestler (or saying that they're ALL mentally handicapped) hear me out. Eugene was originally based off of Warren from There's Something About Mary. This is because Brian Gerwitz, the head of WWE Creative is a moron. But Nick Dinsmore, the guy playing Eugene rolled some ideas around and we got not a "retard in the ring" but a savant.
Eugene was paired with William Regal, a brilliant mat technician and former legit grappler in Great Britian (full story availible upon request, but request specifically). Regal hasn't been an active competitor in a long time due to health problems, but he's a good manager. Queen's English, mannerisms and incredibly expression via facial mannerisms. The manager of Raw puts Regal in charge of Eugene. Regal has to try and train Eugene in order to get him ready for his in-ring debut. Regal starts a sequence with Eugene and lo and behold, Eugene counters him. Regal tries again and Eugene counters with not the same sequence as before, but something different. He's not simply imitating something from before, but he's capable of countering Regal and adapting. Interesting. Regal tries something entirely different. And so on. End with Regal being forced to submit to his own hold (Regal Stretch) and you've got a savant in the ring.
Then you go on to say that the manager, whom Eugene is the nephew of, tells Regal he only promised his sister (Eugene's mom) to give Eugene and opportunity. If he loses his first match, he's disheartened, he'll want to go home and Regal gets his active roster spot back. The plot thickens, yes? Regal tries to screw up Eugene just one time. Eugene wins anyway. The crowd ADORES this character because he's genuinely good at heart and wants to wrestle because he likes to. That's it.
Look at that. It's an example of something that's been done RIGHT recently. Not Smackdown, mind you, which has been done horridly and treated like another sequel to Jaws.
Entertaining? Yes. Good storytelling? You better believe it.
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Post by DocD83 on May 24, 2004 10:38:24 GMT -5
If he was inactive for health reasons, why would the offer of getting his roster spot back be possible?
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Oh woe is me!!! 
