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Post by Hucklebubba on Apr 27, 2006 23:55:18 GMT -5
I have a random question out of nowhere for anyone familiar with the Punisher universe, as my exposure is limited almost exclusively to the PS2 game (which ain't half bad, albeit almost obscenely violent).
Okay. The Punisher. He kills people all the time, has no actual super powers that might aid him in escape and evasion, and evidently pretty much everyone knows his real name and where he lives. So. . .does he have an infinite supply of get out of jail free cards, or what? Are the cops afraid to try to arrest him? Do they secretly approve of his antics? Am I taking fiction too seriously again?
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Post by Al on Apr 28, 2006 1:46:32 GMT -5
I think it's the same logic that prevents the A-Team from getting caught. Except in that one season...
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Post by PoolMan on May 2, 2006 12:59:02 GMT -5
Update on my recent foray into graphic novels!
V for Vendetta: Finished it, loved it. Very interesting, very intense. I'm looking at duplicating Drew's recent Comics to Movies article with a V themed one. Neatness.
Watchmen: Almost finished (one chapter to go!), loving it. I'll say more when I'm done.
Batman DKR: Finished it. Regretted reading it.
SPOILERS ABOUND AFTER THIS POINT: I figure I'm going to get slammed for this, but although I respect what this did for Batman's interpretation, I thought this was a nonsensical, preachy mess.
The good side of DKR was the reinvention of Bats as a true Dark Knight. He's gritty, worn out, and the theme of Batman being the real identity and Bruce Wayne being the mask was amazing. There were parts that had me utterly snared up. I liked the dichotomy of Bats' theory of crimefighting versus Superman's, particulary the fact that Supes had basically become a tool of American government (a theme that gets touched on heavily with Watchmen, via Dr Manhattan).
But man, oh man, there were some cheeeeeeeeesy moments in this book that kept yanking me out of the story. Batman on a horse? Um, okay. Batman donning armour to fight Superman? Eh, I suppose so. Supes feeding off flowers to survive being hit by a nuclear warhead (never mind how that flower survived the blast...)? That was bull. And the whole "faking your death to be reborn"? Ah, it was just... frustrating.
It's hard for me to put my finger on. The story starts out really, really tight. By the end it's all over the map, both actionwise and themewise. Can't say I cared for it all that much. Pity!
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Post by TheOogieBoogieMan on May 2, 2006 14:17:39 GMT -5
Watchmen: Almost finished (one chapter to go!), loving it. I'll say more when I'm done. Batman DKR: Finished it. Regretted reading it. I wasn't particularly impressed with DKR either. Not that I didn't like it, but for all the hype (that damn hype), there wasn't much that stood out for me. I just had a feeling of "Oh, ok..." as I read it. I wasn't bothered by the cheesier elements, but I definitely did not like the ending. I guess the book's significance is due to the fact that superheroes with dimension were a new concept back in the 80s. Arkham Asylum, on the other hand, is a strong book, and worth reading, or even just worth looking at the artwork. I checked Watchmen out of the librarya few moments ago (along with Animal Man), so I'll start reading today. |
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Post by Head Mutant on May 2, 2006 15:16:17 GMT -5
Funny, I liked the Dark Night Returns almost as much as I disliked Watchmen. We're two different shades of creatures, sometimes.
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Post by PoolMan on May 2, 2006 16:24:39 GMT -5
Like light and dark. Cool and hot. Tall and short.
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Post by Spiderdancer on May 2, 2006 16:34:10 GMT -5
Caiman and alligator. Stonefly and mayfly. Cabbage butterfly and codling moth.
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Post by pfrsue on May 2, 2006 16:49:49 GMT -5
Clydesdale and Shetland. What the heck are we talking about?
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Post by Spiderdancer on May 2, 2006 17:27:01 GMT -5
Justin and Poolman.
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Post by Head Mutant on May 2, 2006 18:06:49 GMT -5
Just for the record, HE'S the cabbage butterfly.
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Post by Spiderdancer on May 2, 2006 18:30:49 GMT -5
Uh.. It's not like codling moths are any better...
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Post by TheLuckyOne on May 2, 2006 22:42:27 GMT -5
I guess the book's significance is due to the fact that superheroes with dimension were a new concept back in the 80s. I don't know that I'd go that far, Oogie. Certainly the mid-80's saw a drastic change in how comics are viewed by the general public, with Maus, The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Year One, Daredevil: Born Again, and (a couple of years later) Sandman all garnering attention from the general media... no disputing that. But the heroes had dimension before that; it's what Marvel's entire company was built on in the 60's, stories starring realistic characters with relatable problems (Spidey's got a cold while he has to fight Doc Ock; the Fantastic Four go bankrupt; Iron Man's an alcoholic; etc). And then the 70's saw great strides in comics starting to address societal problems- Marvel allowed Spidey's roommate Harry Osborn to become addicted to drugs in the first mainstream comics published without approval of the Comics Code Authority (and, thanks to their immense success, leading to the complete restructuring of the Code)... meanwhile, DC gave birth to the "Hard-Traveling Heroes," pairing conservative space cop Green Lantern with hot-headed, loudmouth liberal Green Arrow on a road trip to raise GL's social consciousness (a storyline, granted, that [aside from sounding like the worst buddy cop movie ever] didn't exactly explore both sides of every issue -- kneejerk liberal Green Arrow almost invariably wound up being right about everything, while Green Lantern continually came across as the unknowing tool of the Man -- but at least it was a start, and led to some pretty great stories nonetheless). Don't get me wrong, Oogie, I think I know where you're coming from, but I don't think the 80's were as much a period of giving characters dimension as they were about deconstructing the superhero and the superhero comic, breaking them down and shattering established molds. The best of those works (TDKR, Watchmen, Born Again) did so with the purpose of building the heroes (and/or comics themselves) back up again, but there were plenty of imitators who equated "dimension" with "make the hero darker, give him a kewler costume, have him kill some guys," and THAT led to a pretty rough phase for comics for a while there. -D |
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Post by Head Mutant on May 2, 2006 22:45:49 GMT -5
You have officially been attacked by a block of Drew Comic Book Text. Do not panic, nor attempt to leave the reading area. A trained librarian will arrive soon to assist your egress.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on May 2, 2006 23:01:28 GMT -5
Batman DKR: Finished it. Regretted reading it. SPOILERS ABOUND AFTER THIS POINT: I figure I'm going to get slammed for this, but although I respect what this did for Batman's interpretation, I thought this was a nonsensical, preachy mess. But man, oh man, there were some cheeeeeeeeesy moments in this book that kept yanking me out of the story. Batman on a horse? Um, okay. Batman donning armour to fight Superman? Eh, I suppose so. Supes feeding off flowers to survive being hit by a nuclear warhead (never mind how that flower survived the blast...)? That was bull. And the whole "faking your death to be reborn"? Ah, it was just... frustrating. Bummer. Sorry you didn't care for it more, Poolie. While my opinion obviously differs, I think I can understand part of where you're coming from. It DOES get less structured near the end, possibly unfocused (debatable), and I can see the potential for some of the symbolism to annoy. (Since you praised the tight storytelling of the beginning, though, let me reiterate a recommendation to read Year One, Poolie... a much more focused Batman story, I think you'll like it a lot more from what you're saying.) Here's my thoughts: -Bats riding a black horse? Just my theory, I think it's Frank Miller tying things back to the event that created Batman: the Wayne family being ambushed while returning home from seeing The Mark of Zorro. Hmm, a famous dark-clad, revolutionary crimefighter who wears a mask and a cape and rides a black steed? Perhaps Batman subconsciously paying homage to his own "birth"? I dunno, just a thought. -The armor... enh, never bothered me. Different strokes. -Yeah, the Superman/nuke thing is probably what most bothered me the first time I read it too. It hearkens back to Superman gaining his powers from Earth's sunlight, so his body is basically a giant photosynthetic cell... in Frank Miller's mind, apparently you can transfer energy from similar beings (i.e., plants) directly into Superman. I agree, probably the only thing I kinda wince at whenever I reread TDKR. Still, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it more, Poolie. Try Year One, see if that's more to your taste, and if you're so inclined, maybe come back to TDKR after a couple of years, see if it goes down any easier. (Just from personal experience, I often dislike heavily-hyped comics like The Judas Contract, then revisit them much later and find them more to my liking.) And let us know how you liked Watchmen! -D |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on May 2, 2006 23:05:17 GMT -5
You have officially been attacked by a block of Drew Comic Book Text. Do not panic, nor attempt to leave the reading area. A trained librarian will arrive soon to assist your egress. Man, some jive sucka tries to talk comics, [stuff] is on, son!!! -D |
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