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Post by gregslagel on Oct 9, 2003 14:41:16 GMT -5
I thought about putting this in the "What are you reading" thread. But I wanted to make a bigger deal out of it than that. And I justified it by figuring that I Just Finished my book (am no longer reading it), so I needed a new thread.
I just finished the Fountainhead. I remember a bunch of my peers read it in high school, but I ignored it then, not wanting to be a snooty intellectual who read Ayn Rand.
Well, its the greatest book I've ever read. The fact that none of my peers ever told me they thought it was AMAZING makes me think A)they weren't ready for it or B) people just aren't as like me as I'd like them to be. It was incredible. I'd like to meet everyone who claims to have been Moved by this book and see what kind of people they were.
That's all. I liked the Fountainhead.
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Post by Lissa on Oct 9, 2003 15:43:13 GMT -5
I was notorious for faking my way through reading books in high school. I don't know why, because I love to read. Maybe I just hated Shakespeare or something. (Or my AP English teacher.) I think also I had to read a lot of the "life is meaningless" type philosophy. ::GAG:: I DID read two books, and they are still on my top ten to this day: To Kill a Mockingbird in ninth grade, and The Fountainhead in eleventh. Aside from the fact I think Dominque Francon is a serious nutcase, I adore the Fountainhead. The writing was phenomenal. Some of the concepts I didn't agree with at first (and a few I still don't), but as I experienced life and relationships I began to find that they WERE true- most especially that "In order to say 'I love you', one must first be able to say the 'I'." If you liked The Fountainhead, you simply MUST read Atlas Shrugged. The Fountainhead is a presentation of Rand's ideal, but the focus is on the individual. Atlas Shrugged takes that indivdual and examines his role in society. (Different individual.) The writing is even stronger, and the characterization is much better. (I also like Dagny Taggart MUCH better than Dominque Francon.) The only stylistic objection I have to Atlas Shrugged is the 60 page monologue. As far as Rand's work go, I think you will find that most people love it or hate it. A lot of people who hate it didn't hate it at first, but some of the more passionate readers can be very militant. The philosophy of selfishness is also not often understood- Rand's version requires some serious responsibility, whereas the selfishness we see in the world today ignores that aspect. Interesting side note: I read Atlas Shrugged while I was in China. What a time to do so! We the Living is an interesting story, but horribly depressing. Anthem... it's a quick read, it's fascinating, but the scope and depth of it just cannot compare with The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged. Another interesting note: There's a poll about books that have changed people's lives. #1 by a landslide is the Bible. #2? Atlas Shrugged. Obviously, I agree with you.  Lissa (Oh, and the scene with the kid on the bicycle looking at Monodok Valley? One of the best scenes ever.) |
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Post by Head Mutant on Oct 9, 2003 16:10:16 GMT -5
Officer Barbrady: "And then I read this: "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. I read every last word of this garbage, and because of this piece of s(beep)t I'm never reading again!"
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Post by gregslagel on Oct 9, 2003 17:21:03 GMT -5
Yeah, back in my Sluggy Freelance reading days, there was a set of strips revolving around Ms. Rand taking over a pet ferret and attempting to conquer society.
Poor Ms. Rand. She certainly gets the jabs.
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Post by DocD83 on Oct 9, 2003 19:18:39 GMT -5
This is as good a place to ask this as any, I suppose:
Can someone explain the joke in the Simpsons (musical version of "A Streetcar Named Desire" episode) where Maggie gets put in the Ayn Rand School for Tots? I'm sure there are several jokes in that but I can't figure them out.
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Der Germ
Boomstick Coordinator
Gandhi threw a punch, but my religion blocked it!
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Post by Der Germ on Oct 10, 2003 14:47:04 GMT -5
Geez, I hadn't realized how many times I'd heard this name before (South Park, Sluggy Freelance, AND the Simpsons?!) and yet I'm barely just learning of her now.
My Ethics teacher just can't stop going on and on about Ayn Rand (of course, it was kinda her job too) and how good her books are, and despite my objections to her idea on Egoism (how we SHOULD only think of ourselves and what now, I don't like that) she sounds like an interesting person.
So when I'm done with my next *looks at bookshelf* seven books, I'm off to find one of those in the library. Yay!
I'll probably hate it, but what the hey.
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Post by PoolMan on Oct 10, 2003 16:00:47 GMT -5
Yeah, back in my Sluggy Freelance reading days, there was a set of strips revolving around Ms. Rand taking over a pet ferret and attempting to conquer society. I'm still an active Sluggite, and I NEVER knew (still don't) who Ayn Rand is. I've caught the name here and there, in Sluggy and the Simpsons as mentioned above, but mostly I've just shrugged and chalked any gags I didn't get to a person I know nothing of. So who is this person? |
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Post by DarthToad on Oct 10, 2003 21:25:46 GMT -5
Well, I read Anthem before, and though it was a quick and easy read (I actually finished it after reading for about 3 hours straight) it definatly made me doubt my political philosophies. Heck, I don't know what to believe now since I keep being surrounded by more conservitives. But anyway, after I finish the book I'm reading now I'm thinking about reading the Fountainhead (or Atlas Shrugged).
And Pooly, I guess the best way to answer your question is to read about her. *shrug* (no pun intended)
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Post by DocD83 on Oct 10, 2003 22:21:14 GMT -5
Don't forget the mention on Futurama. The mutant's library consisted of nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand, because apparently both have a habit of getting flushed down the toilet.
Is "Ayn" pronounced like "Ann" or more like an "Ai" sound?
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Genetic Mishap
Boomstick Coordinator
I am a South American fish. Surrender your urethra.
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Post by Genetic Mishap on Oct 11, 2003 15:02:53 GMT -5
Haven't read her books, but one of my favorite books of all time, "Why People Believe Weird Things" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805070893/qid=1065900910/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-4907657-1580118?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), had a whole chapter on Rand. Specifically, how her Objectivist movement developed cult like properties.
Too lazy to type. Next time you're at Hastings, find the book and flip to that chapter. Me so sleepy...
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Der Germ
Boomstick Coordinator
Gandhi threw a punch, but my religion blocked it!
Posts: 287
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Post by Der Germ on Oct 11, 2003 22:26:45 GMT -5
Is "Ayn" pronounced like "Ann" or more like an "Ai" sound? Pronounced: Ai-yan |
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Post by Lissa on Oct 13, 2003 20:54:13 GMT -5
"Ayn" rhymes with "Mine" which is the reason she chose it. Rand came from her typewriter.
I forget her real name, but she was born in Russia, was part of the bourgious, and fled once the Communists came to power. From what I understand, "We the Living" is the closest to autobiography that she's written. Her other works include Anthem, The Fountainhead, and Atlas Shrugged, as well as a few lesser known plays and short stories. Additionally, she's written many non-fiction pieces about her philosophy. (To be honest, I've never read those- you can understand it well enough from reading her fiction.) She passed away in the late eighties, I believe.
Her philosophy of Rational Objectivism does center on Egoism, as someone mentioned. It's a selfish philosophy, but it's very important to define her version of selfishness. When most of us think of selfishness, we think of Enron and the schoolyard bully, out to steal your money for themselves. Egoism could not be any further from that.
The most fundamental statement in Objectivism was presented in Atlas Shrugged as: "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Basically, in egoism, the self is the center of one's life. Which makes sense, in that no one else can live your life for you. You are your own top priority, and everything you do is in your own interest and to further your own happiness. Each of us have a pyramid of values, and act accordingly.
One of the key elements that satires tend to ignore is the code of ethics that is imposed on this. Not only do you not live for someone else's sake, but you do not demand anyone else is responsible for your own happiness. Extrapolating from that, your own happiness (and agents thereof) must be produced by you, which basically puts many of the ethics our society recognizes as proper on a person: honesty, integrity, non-stealing (is there a word for that?), loyalty, etc.
A lot of attention is given to Rand's political and economic views. Ayn Rand supports the founding father, idealistic version of capitalism. You work for what you get, you get what you earn. Earn as much as you can! The important word, naturally, is earn. If you aren't earning it, you're not entitled to it. In the political arena, she's very lassaiz-faire. The sole purpose of the government is to protect the rights of the citizens who are paying for that protection.
The Atlas Society (http://www.atlassociety.org) has a rather nice write-up about it if you're interested, or just read Atlas Shrugged. If you DON'T catch on to her philosophy in the first 800 pages, there's a 60 page monologue explaining the entire thing. (As a writer, I cringe.)
This has been a public service announcement, brought you by the number 1 and the letters M, H, and A.
Lissa
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Post by PoolMan on Oct 14, 2003 10:42:18 GMT -5
Thanks Lissa! Interesting stuff, at least I have some idea now.
What that has to do with Maggie not being allowed her pacifier still sort of eludes me...
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Post by Head Mutant on Oct 14, 2003 14:30:37 GMT -5
Man, that was a great episode.
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Post by Lissa on Oct 14, 2003 16:42:04 GMT -5
Best episode ever.
The Maggie/pacifier thing is sort of strange. Objectivism is a very self-reliant philosophy, and all of Rand's heroes are remarkably competent people that can do just about anything and don't need anyone. From Rand's perspective, they barter for what they can't produce themselves. From a satirist's perspective, they just get REALLY into the Island Age. Most people who aren't into the philosophy consider it a very cold, aloof philosophy, so.... that's where the thing about "developing the pacifier within" is coming from- taking away the external crutch and developing that supposed strength that's coming from the pacifier.
Hope that helps. My explanation seems rather convoluted to me!
I'm not sure if the Fountainhead Diet is supposed to be along the same lines (i.e., replacing comfort eating with inner strength) or if that's me analyzing too much and it's supposed to be Rand joke + diet book joke. I suspect the latter.
Liss
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