loose vs. lose: what's happening to the world?

[kylerexpop]

i always used to notice it, to be sure. but i swear the number of people who write "loose" when they mean to write "lose" is growing exponentially. and i don't understand why. are teachers teaching that "loose" is "lose"? how do these people ask for the film "footloose" at blockbuster? or i am wrong, and if you drop something and can't find it you say "i should have known i would loose my lucky charm"? just a pet peeve. the end.

[MarsNeedsTowels]

I feel the same way about the manner in which Australians write, with their wots and their roits. I still can't understand my aussie friends sometimes.

My absolute worst spelling related pet peeve is when people spell "ROGUE" as "ROUGE". Yes, Rouge Squadron was the whoriest fighter squadron in the rebellion. Drives me nuts.

[loulabelle]

MarsNeedsTowels, I am offended. As you can see, I am an Australian citizen who is also literate. Of course, I learnt how to read and write in Fiji and have an English teacher for a mother, so....
But even I have never heard (or read) a "roit" or a "wot." Your Australian friends must be phony New Zealanders instead, or perhaps Tasmanians.

I'm also sick of seeing "loose" and "lose" mixed up. I blame the internet. And when I visit the X-men fanfiction sites, I come across stories about "Rouge."

[pfrsue]

The one that makes me squirm is the term "free reign" as opposed to "free rein". I've always assumed that rein is the correct word. (Just letting that pony run makes a lot more sense than presumed benevolent dictatorship in context.) The dictionary even agrees with me, but I've seen reign used so many times that I've begun to think that the language itself is shifting toward reign. Literary city-slickers. Hmph.

And on a similar equestrian note, I always slap my forehead when I see whoa spelled woah.

[DocD83]

Rouge vs. Rogue?

Loose vs. Lose?

...I'm all for nitpicking the english language, but come on guys these are pretty easy to mix up--and I'm not just saying that because I do it all the time. We're taught that "oo" makes the (how do I type this?) "oooo" sound, and both "lose" and "loose" have that sound. The difference in pronunciation between the two is in the "se" part of the word, but the spelling difference is elsewhere, thus confusion.

The problem with the other set is, of course, that sounding out "rou" will usually give you the beginning sound for "rogue" (or "rout"). "Rouge" is a screwy French-derived word to begin with (most people have to be told how to pronounce it since they can't sound it out correctly--think back when you were learning state capitals, how many got "Baton Rouge" right without being told?), not that the "u" in "rogue" is really all that necessary--they know that there should be a "u" but they don't know where to put it (since it does nothing to the word--"roge" would be pronounced the same way) without stopping and thinking it over.

If you want to complain about this type of thing, complain about "breathe" vs "breath." That follows the standard english rules for a trailing "e" and there's no excuse for mixing them up.

Or about people who don't know when words should have a space between them. "A lot" vs "alot," "All together" vs "altogether," and the like. That drives me nuts.

[PoolMan]

PoolGirl and I were talking about this the other day. Apparently the new "thang" in teaching English is to let young students spell things phoenetically first, to get the hang of the letters and sounds, and THEN to start gently correcting the spelling.

The problem is, I think, that once you learn to spell a word, it's TOUGH un-learning it. So we train kids to spell words incorrectly, and then hope they'll figure it out. Except English is a MUTT of a language, and all the minutiae (ha... sp?) of its spelling and pronunciations is impossible to learn in reverse.

Also: "irregardless". What the hell is THAT?

[pfrsue]

PoolMan said:

Also: "irregardless". What the hell is THAT?

That's the word that got me a major verbal smack-around by my writing mentor. I still get the shudders when I see it.

And as far as the great American teaching ethos, last year I had to tell my daughter's teacher that the spelling test she'd graded as 100% had three errors on it. The teacher shrugged it off and said she wouldn't change it since that might hurt my daughter's self-esteem. I believe my reply what "Dur, WHAT?"

Another parent later told me that the same teacher told her that proper spelling in a written report wasn't too important because the kids would be using computers over the next few years and "That's what spell-check is for."


Sue

[Magill]

There are 2 schools of thought when it comes to teaching reading and spelling--"whole language" and phonetics. When I was learning this, my school used "whole language" which is basically just memorizing words. Yes, we learned some general rules and did some sounding-out of words, but we had a lot of spelling tests on "tricky" words. My stepmom wishes I had been taught phonics, because I suck at sounding out words (when I was reading "The Little House" books, I would completely skip over the word "venison." It took me a while to even attempt to pronounce it out loud, and then it was something like vee-NIGH-son).

Phonics is all about learning phenomes and sounding things out. By the time my brother was learning how to read and spell (10 or so years after me), that's what his school used. I remember that his words for spelling tended to be words that had similar sounds or spellings--a lot of "neigh" "sleigh" "weigh" sort of things. I also remember that when they taught him to print, they used some funky alphabet that had a lot of unneccesary swirls and hook thingies--supposedly so it would be easier to teach him cursive in a few years.

Ahh, educational fads!

[PoolMan]

To be clear: this has nothing to do with USA vs Canada: we're apparently doing this too.

My wife actually mentioned the self esteem thing, actually. How the system doesn't like correcting students because it could damage their self esteem. I'm sorry, but when you start sending me emails with poor spelling, made-up words, and no capitalization (except Kyle) I really lose respect for the author. Good thing they were coddled as kids!

And as for spell check catching it... if *I* could learn to spell with a lazy streak as wide as mine was, anybody could. Letting the computer get it for you is insane.

[TheLuckyOne]

Hey, Mom always told me to stay away from lose women...

pfrsue said:

And as far as the great American teaching ethos, last year I had to tell my daughter's teacher that the spelling test she'd graded as 100% had three errors on it. The teacher shrugged it off and said she wouldn't change it since that might hurt my daughter's self-esteem. I believe my reply what "Dur, WHAT?"

Wow... wish my old 7th grade teacher had heard about that one. As I recall, I once got an A on a test, only to have a friend of mine look it over and notice that she'd marked two questions correct that she'd taken points away from him for, for giving essentially the same answer. When he brought it to her attention, did she give him the extra points? No, she just took them away from me. Dang.


-D

[DocD83]

When I was learning this, my school used "whole language" which is basically just memorizing words.

I was in the schools when the switched from phonics to whole language. Everyone thinks it's a miracle I write as well as I do--I was motivated, you see, because no one seemed to understand my writing. Little did I know that increasing my formal language skills was going in the wrong direction, but that's a rant for another time.

I also remember that when they taught him to print, they used some funky alphabet that had a lot of unneccesary swirls and hook thingies--supposedly so it would be easier to teach him cursive in a few years.

What a waste cursive was. The only thing I can write in a confident cursive hand nowdays is my name, and I stylized the hell out of it--the "J" is just a slash and lots of letters are missing.

I'm sorry, but when you start sending me emails with poor spelling, made-up words, and no capitalization (except Kyle) I really lose respect for the author. Good thing they were coddled as kids!

I kinda take exception to this, and reason is the second word in this sentence. "Kinda" is made up in that it does not appear in the dictionary, but it is common useage for casual writing. Likewise many other words (which don't spring to mind at the moment) which are perhaps a noun shifted to a verb spelling and use--the verb form might not exist in the dictionary but dammit! It's a descriptive word, it's the best word, and it's the word I want. English is a living language and clinging to the Webster security blanket is missing the point of being a good writer. Who was it who said that if you're a writer who doesn't add to the language you're not doing your job?

[PoolMan]

There's a difference between using a piece of slang ("kinda") in the proper context and not actually being aware of the proper original phrase ("kind of"). I can easily forgive someone of using slang if it's done right. Rules of grammar and spelling should still usually reply.

[Magill]

Plus, proper capitalization and punctuation really do help in making writing more readable. I know it's a stupid prejudice, but I automatically judge someone as a bit less intelligent or mature if they don't bother to at least try to get things right (l33t is the worst)--especially if it's a medium where your written word is the only impression you make on people.

DocD83 said:

I was in the schools when the switched from phonics to whole language. Everyone thinks it's a miracle I write as well as I do--I was motivated, you see, because no one seemed to understand my writing. Little did I know that increasing my formal language skills was going in the wrong direction, but that's a rant for another time.

What do you mean by that?

What a waste cursive was. The only thing I can write in a confident cursive hand nowdays is my name, and I stylized the hell out of it--the "J" is just a slash and lots of letters are missing.

I know! Almost no one I know uses cursive for notes--everyone prints. I remember my teachers gave me some bull about how much faster it was. I also remember a certain 8th grade English teacher who was really anal about how we formatted our homework (Name, date due, class section in upper left, title on first line, skip the next line, start writing on the second line) because "when you get to high school, that's how your teachers will expect to see your papers." As if they cared. This teacher would actually take points off if you forgot to skip a line. Can you tell I didn't like her?

Anyway, here's that funky alphabet I was talking about--it's called D'Nealian (sounds like one of the tribes from Myst). I can see where they're going with easing the transition to cursive, but if no one writes cursive, you're stuck with these stupid little hooks on your m's and n's. Though most people probably drop those as they write (or rather, print) more.

[DocD83]

I'm glad to see there's no hat on the capital "J." I hate that hat. That hat is my nemesis.

Little did I know that increasing my formal language skills was going in the wrong direction, but that's a rant for another time.

-----------------------

What do you mean by that?

There were several incidents where the teachers just did not understand what I wrote, so I actually put effort into learning English (an uphill battle). Later I found out two things: that I was right all along, and that more complex (but correct) sentences were misunderstood with even greater frequency. So I sometimes think I'd have been better off with that lot who sailed through school and wound up as 1337 sp34king knuckleheads. I'm an engineer anyway--shouldn't I be nearly incomprehensible when I write?

[MarsNeedsTowels]

loulabelle said:

MarsNeedsTowels, I am offended. As you can see, I am an Australian citizen who is also literate. Of course, I learnt how to read and write in Fiji and have an English teacher for a mother, so....
But even I have never heard (or read) a "roit" or a "wot." Your Australian friends must be phony New Zealanders instead, or perhaps Tasmanians.

I'm also sick of seeing "loose" and "lose" mixed up. I blame the internet. And when I visit the X-men fanfiction sites, I come across stories about "Rouge."

Of course I meant no disrespect to you Ozzies, and I must be more specific that it is the youth that often communicate with written slang and colloqualisms that I do not understand. My friends are definitely not Tasmanian or New Zealanders, but I grant that 3 strange friends do not a country make, point taken.

After 10 years on the internet, the only way i've been able to retain some semblance of proper english has been to use it! Even on IRC I capitalize, use punctuation, and try to create complete sentences, even while a dozen lines of fragments have just scrolled by. There's no way i'm going to be able to edit literary works, but I can still nitpick.