Mike's Prince Caspian

[Ms. Jellybean]

Well done! Your review echoes some of my sentiments about the movie and makes me think hard about what I don't agree with. (Like any good movie review should.)

A note on the "romantic" subplot between Susan and Caspian: I got the impression that they were somewhat foreshadowing the final book, where Susan doesn't return because she is only interested in "silly" things that she thinks are mature. Now, I thought that this was an improper way to handle that bit of the storyline, as it honestly gives more fodder to the anti-Lewis camp who like to claim that in Lewis' world women cannot become sexual beings as they quite naturally do and should. Thoughts?

[Head Mutant]

That argument about Lewis always irked me -- you simply cannot support an anti-woman-empowering view of the series unless you block out, oh, all of the incredibly empowered female characters (far more present than, say, in Tolkien). Yes, he held to pretty traditional views of the time about a woman's place and role (i.e. how the women were kept out of close-quarters combat), but it was not disrespectful or in any way held the female characters back from earning places of respect and honor. Remember, this is the series that begins with a female (Lucy) being the smart and brave one, and the male (Edmund) being the guy who basically betrays his family.

Lewis' point about Susan not returning to Narnia due to "makeup and boys" was to make the point that she ultimately puts other (materialistic, worldly) gods above Aslan/Christ, just as other characters in the Last Battle make a similar decision. Romance was not highly featured in this series, as it was aimed at kids, and when it was, it was mostly just marriages mentioned in passing.

[TheLuckyOne]

Careful, Justin, you'll bring down the wrath of Philip Pullman on us.

Nice review, Mike! One question: did the Werewolf give his infamous speech in the movie, the one Neil Gaiman thinks is one of the greatest literary speeches ever?

"I'm hunger, I'm thirst; where I bite, I hold till I die, and you must cut out my mouthful with me or bury me with my enemy. I can fast for a thousand days and not die; I can lie on the ice for a hundred nights and not freeze; I can drink a river of blood and not burst. Show me your enemy."

-D

[pfrsue]

Yep, Drew. The speech was in there.

[CheshireKat]

Thanks for the positive feedback, folks. It's nice to come home after a long weekend to all these posts.

To answer Ms. Jellybean, yeah, I actually was thinking about Susan and the fact that she doesn't make it into the last book due to her preoccupation with being 'grown up'. Yes I think crushing on Caspian is typical of her character, but rather than depict the relationship as a silly teenage crush, they kinda revel in it. Maybe it's just an inability of movie writers these days to depict any romantic relationship as anything besides "boy meets girl, boy likes girl, boy gets girl, boy kisses girl while orchestra plays".

Also the decision was really pointless and made no sense. Caspian and Susan barely spoke to each other the whole movie then all of a sudden at the end she's kissing him. Ultimately I feel like the decision to show two teenagers hooking up was pandering to some imagined need to sexualize a story that didn't need to be sexualized. Extraneous and irresponsible.

Justin- rock on you said everything I wanted to, so now I don't have to.

Drew- It was in there, and it was frickin awesome.

[Ms. Jellybean]

May 27, 2008 1:28:35 GMT -5 CheshireKat said:

Thanks for the positive feedback, folks. It's nice to come home after a long weekend to all these posts.

To answer Ms. Jellybean, yeah, I actually was thinking about Susan and the fact that she doesn't make it into the last book due to her preoccupation with being 'grown up'. Yes I think crushing on Caspian is typical of her character, but rather than depict the relationship as a silly teenage crush, they kinda revel in it. Maybe it's just an inability of movie writers these days to depict any romantic relationship as anything besides "boy meets girl, boy likes girl, boy gets girl, boy kisses girl while orchestra plays".

Also the decision was really pointless and made no sense. Caspian and Susan barely spoke to each other the whole movie then all of a sudden at the end she's kissing him. Ultimately I feel like the decision to show two teenagers hooking up was pandering to some imagined need to sexualize a story that didn't need to be sexualized. Extraneous and irresponsible.

Completely agreed. All it's done to me is make me visualize unfortunate girls desperately cosplaying as Susan. (No offense to cosplayers out there. I just happen to know some sadly desperate females who spend their time crushing on fictional characters and celebrities rather than doing something productive.)


And if I may have my moment of geekery on this thread, rather than create a separate one for Lissa's review... in the original publishing order of the books, Prince Caspian did come second. The story is so much better when read in the publishing order rather than chronologically.

[TheLuckyOne]

May 29, 2008 17:30:23 GMT -5 Ms. Jellybean said:

And if I may have my moment of geekery on this thread, rather than create a separate one for Lissa's review... in the original publishing order of the books, Prince Caspian did come second. The story is so much better when read in the publishing order rather than chronologically.

+3 Literature Props to Lissa for the Prydain Chronicles reference. If they ever make (better) movies out of those books, I'll definitely see them in the theaters.

And Jelly's point reminds me of something I was wondering: since the books jump around in time a lot, are they going to need to shoot parts of the later movies before some of the earlier ones? Like, The Last Battle brings the Pevensie kids back to Narnia, not too much older than they were in Caspian and Dawn Treader... but if they make that movie last, the actors and actresses will look a good 5-10 years older than they do now, and for the younger ones, that's a real problem. (Can't remember if they appear in A Horse and his Boy or not, I know it's set during their reign.) Do you think the studios are planning ahead and will try to shoot those scenes years before the full movies are made, or just recast the kids (or hope they don't look drastically different later on)?

-D

[CheshireKat]

May 29, 2008 17:30:23 GMT -5 Ms. Jellybean said:

in the original publishing order of the books, Prince Caspian did come second. The story is so much better when read in the publishing order rather than chronologically.

Darn right! When I was a kid there was none of this 'chronological order' foolishness. Honestly...

Also Lissa, The Pevensie's ARE in The Horse and His Boy, as shown in the following excerpt:

"Your Majesties! Queen Susan! King Edmund!" Said a voice: and when Shasta turned to look at the speaker he nearly jumped out of his skin with surprise. For this was one of those queer people whom he had noticed out of the corner of his eye when he first came into the room. He was about the same height as Shasta himself. From the waist upwards he was like a man, but his legs were hairy like a goat's, and shaped like a goat's, and he had goat's hooves and a tail. His skin was rather red and he had curly hair and a short pointed beard and two little horns. He was in fact a Faun, which is a creature Shasta had never even seen a picture of or even heard of. And if you've read a book called The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe you may like to know that was the very same Faun, Tumnus by name, whom Queen Lucy had met on the very first day when she found her way into Narnia.