Agree or Disagree?

[Head Mutant]

Discuss this quote:

"I believe that the box office proves that we like movies that tell us what we want to hear, and show us what we want to see. We tend to dislike movies that tell us what we need to hear and show us what we need to see."

[Genetic Mishap]

The box office proves which movie's advertising we* like to see and hear.

*"We" meaning everybody in general.

[PoolMan]

Assuming "box office" means funds generated by a given movie...

I think that for the public as a whole, it's absolutely true. An Inconvenient Truth (Al Gore's environmentalist film) should probably be shown to everyone with eyes, in my view, and it's earned $23M since May. Crank has made just a little more than that in three weeks.

There will always be people to make important movies with the "need to see" stuff in there, but the vast, vast majority of what gets released every year is "Van Helsing".

I'm sure you withheld it on purpose, but whose quote is that?

[Spiderdancer]

Mostly I agree, though I think Genetic Mishap (and her darling avatar) have a good point about the advertising. I think, having seen Brick, that a lot of people would actually like it that haven't seen it in theaters (Princess Bride Syndrome) because of its lack of promotional funds.

I know that I personally do not go to theaters to see what I need to see. I have the Bible and my pastor (and NPR ) for that. Not only that, but I don't always agree with the cinematic version of what I "need" to see. I'd much rather watch things blow up than see another horrible "middle aged men are angsty" or "anyone disagreeing with Hollywood's politics is a venom-spewing bigoted Nazi" movie.

[Head Mutant]

Oh, I wasn't trying to be tricksy about it. It's from Jeffrey Overstreet's movie blog I read daily. He went on to speculate that movies also place enormous emphasis on individuals overcoming all -- that we can become gods -- instead of stories where the hero is in need of a type of salvation or redemption him/herself.

Just thought it was interesting enough to see what you guys thought.

The blog article can be found here.

[Head Mutant]

That quote resonated with me because, personally, I react to movies that exact same way.

A bulk of the films I watch are very upbeat and positive in tone and outcome -- comedies, action, what have you. They give me happy endings and infallable heroes and predictable plot points. It's comforting.

But the movies that really "fill me up" -- spiritually, intelligently -- tend to be ones with harder subject matter (think: dramas) that aren't so predictable or even comfortable to watch. I outright hate movies that leave me depressed or down, but sometimes there are films I *need* to see that do such things (Sean, you cited yours, I'd cite Schindler's List, American History X as well). Yet there's a difference between movies that are depressing in message and tone, and movies that are depressing in tone but ultimately have a very uplifting message. The latter are the "food" that makes for a satisfying movie experience at times.

I've also made the mistake in the past of saying that a film's first and foremost purpose is to be entertaining. That's not always true, nor should it be. The purpose of films is to give us:

(1) Entertainment
(2) Artistry
(3) Information/Teaching
(4) Inspiration

...and in no particular order.

Movies can be made with just one (or none) of those, and depending on the viewee, might be wonderful or dreadful for its focus. A truly awesome movie might excel in most of those areas.

But sometimes we -- and by "we" I mean "I" -- can't see past my demands on a movie's entertainment value to what else lies beneath.

I guess I'll just make it more of a point to rent some films I've been holding off on because they looked potentially unknowable beforehand.

[PoolMan]

admin said:

I've also made the mistake in the past of saying that a film's first and foremost purpose is to be entertaining. That's not always true, nor should it be.

Well, sez you. If a given person ALWAYS wants uplifting or dumb or easy to swallow, they'll pursue it. Nothing says a movie has to be deep or meaningful, especially not to be "successful".

[Head Mutant]

Certainly. Movies can be successful by following a formula designed to be eaten up by people who like said formula. My point wasn't about the success of any film, but its goal -- and I don't think any semi-intelligent person *always* wants fluffy films, any more than someone who might just eat candy all the time and never crave something more substantial.

Here's a test: ask people their all-time favorite movie. Even if that person is a fluffy, entertainment-only oriented person, chances are they'll list a movie that is in some way profound, moving or deep -- because those movies are the ones that offer something beyond the frosting.

Mmm. Hungry.

[Spiderdancer]

admin said:

Here's a test: ask people their all-time favorite movie. Even if that person is a fluffy, entertainment-only oriented person, chances are they'll list a movie that is in some way profound, moving or deep -- because those movies are the ones that offer something beyond the frosting.

Wroooong.

www.mutantreviewers.com/rsoldier.html

[Head Mutant]

I don't play the odds in Vegas or House Shalen for good reasons.

[StarOpal]

Okay, this may come out sounding confrontational, but this is a subject I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with. My only intent is to be serious.

What are we basing the criteria of "favorite movie" on? I think it should be that one movie you can watch over and over and still enjoy, no matter your mood. My favorite movie of all time is The Princess Bride. But of course the definition and choice depends on the individual.

As for the original quote I suppose I agree. Of course "box office" means while the movie is in theaters. I know when I go to a theater I go with other people and make a night of it. Also, it's bad enough when your watching a mindless actioner and some idiot decides to be rude by [insert theater pet peeve of choice], it would really be bad if it was a movie that was making me think and that happened. So if it's "brain food" I always wait to rent them.

catharsis:

1. purgation, esp. of the bowels
2. the purifying of the emotions or relieving emotional tensions, esp. by art: applied originally by Aristotle to the purging of pity or terror by viewing a tragedy
3. Psychiatry the alleviation of fears, problems, and complexes by bringing them to consciousness or giving them expression

I've been hearing this word a lot lately. It's a word that truly boggles my mind, because when I watch a dramatic or traumatic movie I don't experience this.

Oh sure, I've seen serious movies. Some of them I even liked.

But for the most part I don't watch them.

It's not because they're not important or because I want to pretend that the thing that's being discussed isn't happening. The truth is I know all too well from real life. I've known a family whose youngest daughter was tortured and had her eyes burned out by cigarettes when they were trying to get out of Romania in the early eighties. I've seen the aftermath of a woman who was beat to death by her husband (it was quite a mess). When I was a kid there was a guy kidnapping, raping, and murdering children in our town. Children I knew and went to school with. I've had to go with my dad to the kind of place where you can buy a hooker for a bag of potatoes, and pay some crackhead $5.00 to drag a friend out of a crack house. Call it an intervention.

That's just for starters and I'm only 22.

Those serious movies don't inspire me and they don't provide catharsis. When I watch a fluffy movie that is my release. I don't need a movie to beat me up or bring me down. I've seen it. I've lived it.

I'm tired.

I've put in my time and fought the fights. So maybe I'm also a little tired of defending my love of movies that are light, quirky, or completely fantastical. Excuse me if I feel I've earned it. Just to say, sometimes there's a solid reason why people like "frosting" movies.

And I've never come down on someone for liking a "thinking" movie.

As for being told what I need, I'm with Shalen; I read my Bible for that.

Wow, typing this all out felt really, really good. All right. Enough of that. Time to go back to happy, laid back StarOpal.

[Head Mutant]

Hope it felt good Nobody's telling you what you should like or dislike, or judge you for what you watch.

Listen, I wasn't saying that it's bad in any way to like fluffy flicks or even hold them as your favorites. Look at my DVD bookshelf: it's 95% of those kind of movies. Look at MRFH: it's at least 90% entertaining or so-bad-they're-good entertaining types of films. Obviously, movies provide escapism and that's not bad (provided, of course, it's in moderation). It's like books -- many of us love our favorite comfort genres, and they aren't exactly brain surgery to read them. You know what you're gonna get, and it's good to open the book. But every once in a while it's good to chew on something more meaty.

I don't think that I or the article's author were being elitist in movie tastes at all, just promoting diversity in viewing habits. And who is to say that a movie with a primary goal is pure entertainment can't also have deeper elements?

I'd like to mention Millions again. It's almost pure candy -- happy happy child trippy bright colors stuff. It's funny, very re-watchable and comforting through and through. But it's also got some pretty deep stuff, some inspiration and a message.

Or Dead Poets Society. It's a serious movie that's masked with humor and inspiration.

Or Donnie Darko, which is a whole rainbow of emotions, genres and flavors.

Or Wallace & Gromit, which is pure fluff (bunny fluff!) but executed so brilliantly as to render other comedies sterile.

I'm with ya -- it's just not fun to watch a movie that's depressing when the world already is that way. I'm just saying it's not a bad thing to always be challenging oneself to explore new areas, even in film. And, yes, it's not a bad thing to stock up your shelves with films you know will put you in a certain kind of happy mood.

[StarOpal]

Oh yeah, I know, I know. Pretty much everything before the definition is directly related to the posts in this thread. After that is a sort of related thought.

Like I said this is something I've been hearing about (outside of MRFH), and thinking about a lot lately. And the words just a'flowed from my fingers. Was it too much? Should I hold back some?

I guess the part I got hung up on was:

A bulk of the films I watch are very upbeat and positive in tone and outcome -- comedies, action, what have you. They give me happy endings and infallible heroes and predictable plot points. It's comforting.

But the movies that really "fill me up" -- spiritually, intelligently -- tend to be ones with harder subject matter (think: dramas) that aren't so predictable or even comfortable to watch. I outright hate movies that leave me depressed or down, but sometimes there are films I *need* to see that do such things (Sean, you cited yours, I'd cite Schindler's List, American History X as well). Yet there's a difference between movies that are depressing in message and tone, and movies that are depressing in tone but ultimately have a very uplifting message. The latter are the "food" that makes for a satisfying movie experience at times.

I definitely love intelligent movies, clever comedies, and inspirational but unknown films. Good Luck and Good Night was a movie that I liked. It works as a period movie for a scary time in American history and a movie that touches on the importance of freedom of speech and freedom of the press. But, say, Beyond Borders' ending completely sucks the life out of me. I suspect it all goes back to me watching Dr. Zhivago when I was nine. Ever since then I can't stand movies that are just saturated with despair. But I do try sometimes.

I will say one movie that I liked, but it made me hurt deep inside was Some Mother's Son.

I find I'm really drawn to movies that are about overcoming or coping with sorrow, but still maintain a comedic side. Return to Me, does this, I think. Not to mention it has a married couple who look and act like a) they're happily married and b) real people. Or Truly, Madly, Deeply. Or Sliding Doors, a movie that most people pass on because it has Gwyneth Paltrow, but who's ultimate message (or at least the one I got out of it) is, "Sometimes bad things have to happen in order for them to turn out how they're supposed to." Or Millennium Actress, a movie that I can't recommend enough.

I don't know why I seem to feel so strongly on this.

[Head Mutant]

I'm always curious who are the people out there who love nothing but dark, depressing movies. I'm sure filmmakers make those sorts of films for people like that in mind, but I haven't hung out with too many of them.