Is Disney Sexist?

[Hucklebubba]

aargmematey said:

Why did they decide to call him Beast?

That was actually his given name. Beast Nathaniel Harrington. The fact that he would eventually become a beast was just one of those peculiar coincidences.

[DarthShady]

hucklebubba said:

That was actually his given name. Beast Nathaniel Harrington. The fact that he would eventually become a beast was just one of those peculiar coincidences.

Huh. Imagine that....

[StarOpal]

hucklebubba said:

That was actually his given name. Beast Nathaniel Harrington. The fact that he would eventually become a beast was just one of those peculiar coincidences.

You didn't get the name quite right. It was Beast Nathaniel Harrington III.

As someone who has only been glancing at this whole thread (and therefore completely unsuited to comment) let me say that as a little girl even though I watched Disney movies I always wanted to be a pirate or a spy, not a princess. For what it's worth and all that...

[Head Mutant]

And I always wanted to be a princess. Weird.

[Spiderdancer]

Is this a book? Comic book? Where do I find it?

@sue: Good point.

Also: Not as much with the new ones as the original fairy tales (esp. Grimm's), but did anyone else notice how much of an utter and complete tool the widower generally becomes the second he remarries? He may start out as a loving, affectionate Dad, but let him walk down the aisle again and he's willing to neglect, abuse, or even kill his own kids.

I wonder if it's some kind of cultural censure on remarriage...

[TheLuckyOne]

spiderdancer said:

Is this a book? Comic book? Where do I find it?

It's an ongoing comic that tells the story of a great number of fairy tale beings who were displaced from their homeworlds by a mysterious tyrant called "the Adversary" and have created a small settlement in New York City, disguised from the "mundies" (mundanes, i.e. us). That simple description doesn't do it justice, though; it's a great comic, having won numerous awards and being (with Sandman and Lucifer both ended) probably the best title published by DC's mature audiences "Vertigo" imprint. (Though Y the Last Man gives it a run for its money.) Any major bookstore should have it... the first collection is called "Legends in Exile."

Here's the wikipedia entry (very informative, but some spoilers in the "Stories" section):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fables_%28comics%29

And here's where you can read the first issue for free online (warning, adult language and some sexual content):

www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1606

I highly recommend at least giving it a shot; when I worked at Barnes & Noble I got 2 coworkers hooked on it. Really a fun, thoughtful series.

-D

[Ms. Jellybean]

Drew - the graphic novel is way too cool.

I figure I'll put my two cents in for this subject, since it's a very interesting one.

The way I see Disney movies, in regards to possible sexism, lies in a realization of when exactly the movie was made. Many of the classics (such as Cinderella and Snow White) were made in a time where a woman was mainly looking to marry and settle down, not to mention the fact that the stories these movies were based upon are from an even earlier time where this was reinforced. It seems to be a trend, to me at least, where as the times have changed Disney has changed with them. At least a little bit, anyway.

And since people are listing opinions on Disney females...

Mulan - I completely agree with the going trend that Mulan is perhaps one of the strongest Disney heroines. Not to mention that the movie is also really well done.

Megara - I'll admit it, when "Hercules" came out I wanted to BE Megara. Not in her seductive nature, oh no. I was a 4th grader, the whole seductress thing went over my head a little. What I wanted to be was a smart, street-wise heroine who could win someone over with a few well-placed clever remarks. It rings slightly of Beatrice from "Much Ado About Nothing," but only a little. A woman who can argue with the men and in such a way prove that she's capable of much more than what's expected.

Snow White - I see nothing wrong with Snow White. At all. I use her as an example of the classic Disney princess that can still be a good role model for young girls. My younger sister, when she was about three, wanted to be Snow White. This same sister, eleven years later, is not a submissive "Oh I need a handsome prince to save me" type of girl. There are sure to be other qualities that a young girl can see in a Disney princess that aren't just the negative ones. In the example of my sister, one of her long-standing reasons for admiring Snow White is that she was the fairest in the land without being the stereotypical blond-haired, blue-eyed bombshell image that people conjure today when someone says "hot girl." (And I am excluded from THAT stereotype because I'm not a bombshell! Ha.)

Belle - She could read and did so for fun. Personal hero.

That's all I've got for now to say on the subject...

[DocD83]

Also: Not as much with the new ones as the original fairy tales (esp. Grimm's), but did anyone else notice how much of an utter and complete tool the widower generally becomes the second he remarries? He may start out as a loving, affectionate Dad, but let him walk down the aisle again and he's willing to neglect, abuse, or even kill his own kids.

I wonder if it's some kind of cultural censure on remarriage...

For what it's worth the original stories never had step mothers, but the Grimms changed them because they thought the abuse less shocking coming from someone who is not the biological parent. Still don't know how that explains the fathers. I guess they were tools to begin with, originally.

[sarahbot]

spiderdancer said:

You know, I've often wondered about that "Disney wants to kill your Mom" thing. Are they just trying to gain sympathy for young female characters in a harsh world? Are they unusually sympathetic toward the much-neglected single Dads? Do they really just hate your Mom?

From a piece about animated movies on Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio's website. #4 is my favourite.

Animated features often portray the family unit as fractured, with no parents or only one parent. This is because:

1. Animated films are quite expensive to produce.
2. The people who make animated films come from dysfunctional, single-parent families.
3. It creates sympathy for the characters if one parent is missing.
4. Whoops! We forgot to put in the other parent!
5. Part of a conspiracy among all Hollywood film studios to undermine the traditional family values of all Americans.

[Spiderdancer]

jellybean said:

Mulan - I completely agree with the going trend that Mulan is perhaps one of the strongest Disney heroines. Not to mention that the movie is also really well done.

Very literally. Heh. I wish I could haul a male weighing twice my size up onto a horse with ONE ARM and an ARROW sticking out of my chest. Seriously.

So very difficult to write balanced strong women. Media tends to err in the direction of "sassy remarks, physically incompetent" or "full-blown over-the-top dominatrix" or "basically a superhero" (which last includes Buffy as well as Mulan, really, but I own some episodes of that, too).

I find it difficult myself. I tend to err in the direction of giving them supernatural powers not possessed by myself or other women of my acquaintance, and thus write about female Orcs, Oblivion Dremoras, vampires, etc.

[aargmematey]

spiderdancer said:

Very literally. Heh. I wish I could haul a male weighing twice my size up onto a horse with ONE ARM and an ARROW sticking out of my chest. Seriously.

Even better, she manages to hang on to her horse using only her legs (!!!) when the guys pull her up after she fell over the cliff. Are her thighs the super-power that you're referring to?

[pfrsue]

aargmematey said:

spiderdancer said:

Very literally. Heh. I wish I could haul a male weighing twice my size up onto a horse with ONE ARM and an ARROW sticking out of my chest. Seriously.

Even better, she manages to hang on to her horse using only her legs (!!!) when the guys pull her up after she fell over the cliff. Are her thighs the super-power that you're referring to?

Shucks, tain't so hard to do.

[DarthShady]

Mulan kicks butt. Plus she lives in China. I've always wanted to live there. (Or Japan. Both have beautiful cultures.)

[lexi]

I firmly believe that Disney is sexist. After all, for every Mulan there are five Sleeping Beauties and Jasmines.

Don't forget the non-aminated Disney films! Or are we just concentrating on the cartoons?

Elizabeth Turner of PoTC - I suppose she's slightly better in the second film, but that's probably only because Keira Knightly won't put up with her character being too wussy, like she was in the first movie.

There IS no female heroine in Holes...just an evil woman baddie.

Susan and Lucy in Narnia aren't allowed to fight - oh no! We can't let a girl in battle where she might get hurt! Also see the evil White Witch. Although we can also lay the blame for this at the feet of CS Lewis, so maybe it's not all Disney.

High School Musical - girl is pretty, clever and also so shy that she needs a man to help her realise her potential. Oh yeah, and she doesn't have a father!

Hmmm....actually...maybe the lack of a father who actually DOES anything (such as in Cinderella) is the reason for the heroines' general desire to be rescued by men? Is Disney trying to make a psychological point?

[Ms. Jellybean]

lexi said:

There IS no female heroine in Holes...just an evil woman baddie.

Susan and Lucy in Narnia aren't allowed to fight - oh no! We can't let a girl in battle where she might get hurt! Also see the evil White Witch. Although we can also lay the blame for this at the feet of CS Lewis, so maybe it's not all Disney.

Well, yes, but both of these films are based upon books that Disney made into movies (and, surprisingly, got mostly accurate in translation from page to screen). I see where you made your point about C.S. Lewis for the Chronicles of Narnia "sexism," but this was once again from a time where there were still very defined gender roles and such roles would be written for these characters. It's also interesting to note that Susan and Lucy in the Chronicles of Narnia aren't necessarily weaker - their strengths simply lie elsewhere, and they are a crucial part of winning against the White Witch.