Drew's Varsity Blues

[dangshessnazzy]

I liked it. I totally relate when you have a sort of not-so-great movie but you love it so much. That's my relationship with 95% of the movies I own. I own Deep Blue Sea.

One thing I noticed was your anger at a lack of a message. Even though I've never seen the film, 'Leave it on the field' seems like a adequate, if not really good, message for me. This is life, you live it, now let's play football. I like that. If that's what they're saying, I think you have to give them props. However, cone again, never seen it.

But the main reasons I'm making a post is don't you think Vanderbeek is like the funniest word ever?

[blinkfan]

Great review Drew. 50 Kudos to you.

[DTH]

Varsity Blues rocks!

Famousmortimer introduced me to this film and I've always enjoyed it.

Thing is, you missed the funniest line - "Ahm goin' to jail"

[TheLuckyOne]

Thanks, guys. And Nancy, you're absolutely right about "leave it all on the field" being a worthwhile message. I think my problem is more that VB has so many different messages, they feel a bit jumbled, and sometimes even conflicting. Mox gets frustrated that everyone in town is reliving their glory through him and treating him like a god, he thinks it's ridiculous... except he clearly enjoys it and never once turns down the free beer or adulation or strip club admittance and drinks on the house that it brings him. His final speech ("play the game just for this game, not for the future") on the surface sounds different from Kilmer's stance ("this is 48 minutes for the next 48 years of your life"), but what he ends up saying about leaving it all on the field is only different from Kilmer in the execution, not the overall message. Likewise, Mox spends most of the movie whining about how he loves the game of football but hates the "win at all costs" mentality, but just one extra scene with him and his friends playing a spontaneous pickup game with each other, no crowds or pressure, would have really sold that message.

Don't get me wrong, I think the filmmakers had some good thoughts on the nature of sports and competition, and I was personally able to pick up on and identify with them, I think; I'm just not sure someone who hasn't lived that lifestyle would feel the same way, or if they'd think it was just a jumble of mixed messages. I'd be really curious to hear from someone who didn't grow up in competitive sports, who doesn't personally identify with things in the movie, and hear their thoughts on it.

-D

[famousmortimer]

I think you kind of missed the lack-of-point of the film. I love it, probably more than you, and I never once got annoyed at the vagueness of its message, but then I never looked for one quite as deeply as you did. It doesn’t really have one, other than that high school sports is big business in some towns and some kids have their lives destroyed by that town-encompassing desire to win.

Mox, and I’m not going to make any great defence of the writing on this film, is a character of contradictions, much like…everyone else on the planet. He has feelings about what the sport he loves has become, but doesn’t exactly fight the adulation that his ability at that sport brings him. Heroes in films who are completely morally unswerving don’t really reflect reality all that well- I’m not saying this film does either, but at least it has a try. The other characters are pretty much stereotypes who either have a similar moment of clarity (Billy Bob, Paul Walker’s character, his girlfriend) or don’t (Tweeder, Voight). It’s a teen film that has the requisite t&a but shows women to be way stronger and more central than nearly every teen film made in the 1980s not by John Hughes.

The list of faults makes me think you don’t like it all that much at all, or if you do you were just struggling for things to find fault with. Tweeder steals a police car when they’re trying to break up the teen’s party, hardly something to hate someone for. His womanising is conducted almost entirely off-screen so we can’t use it as a stick to beat him with. He’s comic relief and brilliant comic relief at that. And Voight is human, like everyone else in the film- up to the point where you see him getting that kid the injection, I’d be willing to bet a fair few people watching the film were going “a good firm hand is what high school kids need, Voight’s okay”. I don’t think any of the other main characters claim the moral high ground either.

It’s a load of fun and is a quick-paced sports romp. A cast of decent supporting characters operating firmly in the teen film genre and a decent enough plot. If you’re looking for holes in this film you’ll find them, but what’s the point in looking? We all know it’s not an all-time classic, either of films in general or even of its genre (sports films or high school films) and to look at it as if it should be is depriving yourself of a couple of hours of good fun.

[TheLuckyOne]

famousmortimer said:

If you’re looking for holes in this film you’ll find them, but what’s the point in looking?

Well, uh... we are movie critics. So there's that. Being critical -- sorta part of the job description and all. God knows I'd love to wax on in every review about how said movie is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and probably would if I didn't edit myself), but it might lead to some pretty damn dull reviews.

famousmortimer said:

Tweeder steals a police car when they’re trying to break up the teen’s party, hardly something to hate someone for.

Nor did I say I hate him... he's probably my favorite character in the movie. If you ask me whether him stealing a cop car is hilarious, the answer is a resounding yes. But if you're trying to tell me it's morally justified because, after all, the police were trying to calmly break up an underage drinking party without arresting everyone or anything... well, sounds like you and I grew up in different places, my friend.

famousmortimer said:

His womanising is conducted almost entirely off-screen so we can’t use it as a stick to beat him with.

Oh, come on... this is a character who mentions that the best way to loosen a woman's inhibitions is with a couple of percocets and a vicoden. Joking or not (and frankly, it really doesn't carry the tone that he is), you can't tell me that's not going to offend some people.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, Mark, but remarks like THIS:

famousmortimer said:

The list of faults makes me think you don’t like it all that much at all, or if you do you were just struggling for things to find fault with.

and THIS:

famousmortimer said:

I think you kind of missed the lack-of-point of the film. I love it, probably more than you

...are pretty frustrating. With respect, you can't know how many umpteen zillion times I've (voluntarily) watched this movie, on bus rides to swim meets or just with a group of teammates... not to sound like an ass, but more times than you've seen it, I'd wager. You don't know that it was one of the first movies I asked for (and received) when I first got a DVD player. And you don't know how much I forced myself to be critical when reviewing it, to avoid saying simply "this movie rocks, go see it!" So to tell me that I "don't like it that much at all," or that you "love it, probably more than [me]"... well, it's not exactly the way to win friends and influence people, ya know?

-D

[Head Mutant]

I'd like to back up Drew on this one, particularly his point about being critical. Our job isn't to be praise/putdown factory machines, merely based on our feelings to the exclusion of common sense. A good critic should be able to (with rare exceptions) be able to find the lacking in an otherwise decent flick, or the positive in an otherwise abomination, and to report on them. My favorite films -- PCU, Aliens, Army of Darkness and soforth -- do not mean they're without faults, or that I don't see them.

The problem is that fandom, particularly the brand that's grown ever-stronger since the internet swept the world, is at odds with anything that remotely hints at something wrong with their One and Only. In many eyes of Star Wars fanboys, for instance, there is absolutely no room for error or critical judgement of their films/franchise, and they will bend over backwards to try to make up explanations to cover the inadequacies of the movie's editor, writer or director when they're pointed out. Extreme fanboy apologetics.

Not saying that this is what you did here, Mort, but it's something we've seen and heard from readers often enough to comment on. I would hope that a reader, upon coming across a MRFH review that's at odds with his or her personal feelings of the movie, would be (a) entertained by our writing style, and (b) challenged to become critical thinkers themselves. It's a stronger review and recommendation that points out flaws in a movie and THEN goes on to say that they liked it, despite these flaws, than a review that gives people basically what they want to hear without acknowledging any gray area. And vice versa.

[famousmortimer]

Sorry for having an opposing opinion.

It's a garbage teen sex comedy-drama. Picking fault with a film like this is somewhat redundant, because we all know it's going to be no good in the first place. It's like reviewing a Danielle Steel novel the same way you'd review Dostoyevsky- Steel might be quite good fun, but the people who pick up one of her novels know what they're getting and it's not Dostoyevsky.

I wasn't suggesting you should be "internet fanboys" and I don't think I am, either. I don't think I tried to cover up for any of the film's inadequacies either. I mention the weakness of the writing in my post, and very clearly say it's not an all-time classic. But don't let inconvenient things like facts get in the way, eh? Let me see...

But if you're trying to tell me it's morally justified because, after all, the police were trying to calmly break up an underage drinking party without arresting everyone or anything... well, sounds like you and I grew up in different places, my friend.

It's a high school sex comedy! I'm not judging it like it's real life, I'm judging it in its genre. I've seen a teen film where the heroes kill the Principal of their college by farting on him, steal his body from the funeral by gassing the entire church with marijuana smoke and then leave his body in the toilet of their frat house. In the big list of crimes committed in teen films by the heroes, the ones in Varsity Blues are mild.

I would hope that a reader, upon coming across a MRFH review that's at odds with his or her personal feelings of the movie, would be (a) entertained by our writing style, and (b) challenged to become critical thinkers themselves.

I would hope that, on reading a response to a review which had some issues with it, the reviewer and administrator of the board wouldn't just close ranks and accuse that person of being an internet fanboy. But we all have unrealistic dreams, don't we?

[pfrsue]

Easy does it there. No one called you a fanboy, Mort.

Drew's thoughts and opinions on Varsity Blues are his own, and he defends them well. Your thoughts and opinions are different and you also defend them well. (Right up until you started pointing fingers and calling people "administrator" anyway.)

One of the great things about MRFH is that not even the REVIEWERS themselves agree on some movies. That's why we're all encouraged to look at films that other mutants have already reviewed. Fairly often we have to agree to disagree on some things, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with a little friendly debate or discussion. What we don't do is say, "You didn't watch this movie right, you don't see what I see, therefore you're wrong and your opinion is invalid." That's the line you're dancing on, and yes, that is a bit reminiscent of some of the drubbings we've taken at the hands of the fanboy crowd. (We're still scrubbing JasonKelp's rabid froth off our monitors.)

So hey, you've given your opinion, Drew rebutted with his. It's all good. Neutral corners please.

[PoolMan]

And no hitting below the belt. Drew's honeymoon isn't that far behind him yet, and he's still tender there...

[TheLuckyOne]

Thank you, PoolMan. And would you mind getting me some more ice?

-D

[DTH]

I'd like to make a rebuttal to both Drew and Mort on this one, 'cause I agree with some of both of what they say;

I think that Mort came across a little aggressive and that put Drew on the ropes. You have to be very careful over use of language/emoticons on the internet purely because a perfectly reasonable statement can come across as an attack.

This is the number one reason for flames: someone expresses an opinion perhaps a little two emphatically, which is tantamount to sticking your head in to a furnace...

I don't believe Mortimer meant in anyway to invalidate your thoughts, Drew. He disagreed, put forward an alternative viewpoint, however, as eloquent as he put it (and indeed, my good compatriot is as eloquent as he is verbose), it was forthright.

The crux of the argument, which you both agree on mind, is:

Varsity Blues is a flawed film which you both love.

In Mortimer's defense (and this is in no way a critique on your talent Drew, 'cause let's face it, I've applied twice to join MRFH and not got in, so what does that say on my ability to criticise anyone! ), your review does come across a little negative toward the film. Its almost like, as you are writing the review, despite your obvious love for VB, you are kind of realising just how lame it is

Perhaps that is why Mortimer took the opinion that he "probably loved it more than you" (to paraphrase).

The thing is, I don't see anything wrong with Drew's opinion. At the end of the day, you are there to critique a movie. Drew's sentiment is "I've watched this film a million times and don't know why, but I love it!".

From a technical standpoint, its a bit cruddy: the writing is weak, the acting is pretty poor in places and overall, it is ridiculous (how many high school teachers do you know worked a strip joint?). However, as Mort pointed out, within the context of the genre, it is a work of genius.

I think blame should be landed firmly at the feet of John Hughes' fans and all those people who watched "Porky's" (and, to a lesser extent, American Pie, which is Porky's 2.0 IMO ) ;D

So anyways, to sum up: you are both right and you are both wrong.

Now kiss and make up ;D