Dirty Half Dozen Directors

[Al]

admin said:

The man makes hateful, spiteful movies and is one of the leading captains of the resurgence of torture porn. He's not a good director of movies, just simulated snuff films.

Amen, brother!

[bladestarr]

Speaking of Eli Roth, Bill O'Reilly agrees with you, Justin. ;D

[Head Mutant]

Well, O'Reilly is way off there... he has NO idea how many teenagers watched High School Musical 2. It's all my kids -- mostly girls, but some guys -- have been talking about for the past week.

[bladestarr]

Yes, but your kids are hardly the norm. Most kids in the country were like me, raised with religion as something you do once or maybe twice a year when your mom makes you. The kids that are around you are the kind that probably watch the Disney Channel daily. My little sister is like that now. I and my brothers, on the other hand, were raised on Looney Tunes, Fox, and anything dirty or naughty. I honestly think that's more the norm out there.

I actually have a theory about that. I see Disney as a type of cult. I also see the "Married, With Children" kids as an opposing cult. Disney preaches high moral values so much so that the live action shows on that channel look more cartoonish than some of the cartoons, which is ironic when you consider how many of the "religious right" are always trying to tear them down. Makes no sense to me.

The "Married, With Children" cult shows a gritty, dirty, nasty cynical world. Which is closer to the truth? I'd say probably the "Married" cult. Which is the better, more ideal American reality? I'd probably say Disney. I honestly hope that my kids grow up with Disney, but I fear that if I would raise them in that cult, the world that they met when they went outside my door would mistreat them cruelly. I think it's probably better for kids in the long run to see both sides, the ideal and the more real. That way they know how they probably SHOULD act, and they are also educated on how most people around them probably WILL act, when they are at their worst.

[Lissa]

Wow. You're making some pretty big assumptions there.

I've only briefly met Justin's youth group, but I can tell you about my own. They don't all have great parents. Some do. Some have parents that spend all their time working and no time with their kids. Some have parents that are emotionally abusive. Some have parents that are physically abusive. Some have parents that are divorced, some have parents that have passed away, and some don't live with parents at all. Some of the great parents are fine with their kids watching television. Some won't let them go near it.

Not all of the kids are religious. Some believe in God, some don't but come because this is where their friends are. Some got into the youth group because their parents encouraged it, some don't even belong to the church and came because a friend suggested it and ended up converting to Christianity. And even those that do believe in God... well, they're teenagers. Some stick to the straight and narrow, and some are more inclined to experiment. Our youth group has had kids that cut, do drugs, have sex, lie, cheat, and steal, and also turn around and do service projects and help out their friends. The one thing I've learned in my three years of youth ministry is that there's no such thing as a stereotypical youth group kid. (And I live in a safe, white bread suburb, not the inner city here.)

I don't agree at all that there are only two "cults" or camps of TV viewing. There's a whole range of views on parenting and TV. Some parents are adamantly against letting their kids watch TV, to the point where they don't bring a TV into their homes. Others have no issue with it. And then there's anything in between.

And what's good for one parent might not be good for another. Ducklet watches Sesame Street. There are a lot of psychologists out there who would not approve. He also occasionally watches Muppets, and believe me when I say some of those jokes are pretty dirty. He's not allowed to watch The Wiggles. Why? There's nothing morally objectionable there. Plenty of parents let their kids watch The Wiggles. But we have our reasons, and they have nothing to do with morals and everything to do with one hour of TV a day is enough for most days, and I'd rather it's something he'll really benefit intellectually from.

There are a lot of shows/movies in between, too. Example: I know a TON of kids who watch Harry Potter or Star Wars. Wouldn't call it Disney- there's way too much moral ambiguity. Wouldn't call it the other end, either, though. There is a lot of entertainment geared at younger viewers that does not inherently patronize or corrupt.

Then there's the biggest question of all- how much should/does entertainment shape a child's world view? And again, it depends on the parents, what they allow a child to watch, when they allow it, and how they address it.

[lordtimothydexter]

"Yes, but your kids are hardly the norm. Most kids in the country were like me, raised with religion as something you do once or maybe twice a year when your mom makes you. The kids that are around you are the kind that probably watch the Disney Channel daily."

Oh, I don't know Philotix. I had to do tech for a stage production of High School Musical this summer. Had about 50 kids audition, and good heavens were they all of differing social-religious-economical-political-varying-television-watching-habits (let alone Disney) status. Songs still got stuck in yer head all the same, but very different kids were all singing 'em.

[bladestarr]

Welcome to the forums!

[Head Mutant]

I wasn't just speaking about my youth group kids -- their friends and large chunks of the schools are nuts for those movies. I wasn't angling anything religious here, just that teens actually do watch and love more innocent/wholesome/what have you programming. Sure, some don't, and many do a mix between the two, but there are a lot of teens out there in no great hurry to grow up, and enjoy stuff that Disney or Nick makes. I mean, it's great to make gross assumptions on the viewing habits of teenagers everywhere, but you just can't. All I can report on is what I observe around me and in the community.

I think that we're seeing a very subtle but noticable trend of teens fighting against the pressure media lays on them to grow up and handle adult material at earlier and earlier ages. Yeah, they watch R-rated movies, but there's a big part of teens who gravitate toward media that's not pressuring them, but just wants to entertain. I'm constantly surprised -- although I shouldn't be -- when I show cartoons (VeggieTales, Wallace and Gromit) or what I'd consider fairly bland family-friendly movies (Facing the Giants, Nativity Story) and they just love watching them. Heck, a month ago we had a boys' and girls' movie night. The guys watched (many for the first time) Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and had a blast. The girls were led by an eccentric mom who rented -- of all things -- Rear Window. I thought for sure she'd have a riot on her hands, that the girls would want to watch something very girly and modern, but they LOVED it. They got all into the suspense and enjoyed a more tepid (when it comes to edgy material) classic from decades ago.

I think many teens really resent being pushed into the whole deep, dark world of sex, drugs, and more adult issues before they're quite ready, and they're latching on to programming that tells them it's okay to just grow up at their own pace and watch something that isn't spewing hundreds of swear words or raunchy material at them every hour.

[bladestarr]

You all have good points. And, looking at my little sister, I can see where you are probably right. The "cult of Disney" is starting to gain more and more strength and it does seem like more kids are getting into it. That doesn't take away my concerns, however, that we are ill-preparing them for the real world. Or at least they are ill-preparing themselves.

Humans are sexually mature somewhere between the ages of 12 and 15 (on average), I wonder if anyone knows of any studies where they have measured emotional or psychological maturity. I have another theory. That is that we as humans are physiologically mature by the time we are sexually mature and that society for the last few hundred years has "retarded" children's growth into adulthood. This, I think, is where the "awkward teenage years" comes from, the disconnect between the physical and mental capacities of teens.

If you look back just a few hundred years, you'll see people that we call "kids" today having full careers, like as blacksmiths or farmers, etc., having families of their own and being responsible adults, all at a very early age. Then again, people back then also died alot sooner than we do now, so maybe they HAD to grow up quicker to get more out of life. A few hundred years ago, being 55 meant that you were ready to kick the bucket any moment, now it's more like 75.

What do you all think about this? Is it a good thing that "children's" psychological growth is "retarded" by society, giving them an easier and slower entry into the adult world, or should be be pressing for children to grow up faster and become adults sooner? It seems like the modern media have only contributed to one half of the "maturation equation". They have shown "kids" what their privates do and the "benefits" of being an adult. What the media doesn't really show anymore is the responsibility that comes along with being an adult as well.

I think that might be where the problem lies. Kids are being told that they have adult benefits without having to have adult responsibilities. A few hundred years ago, a 16 year old not only could do almost anything that they wanted, but were also responsible for maintaining their own livelihood. Today, 16 year olds get the "benefits" of being able to drive a car and earn money without the "responsibilities" of paying their own way in the world. The money that they earn is "extra" and "bonus".

That's alot of "quotation marks" there, perhaps too many. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

[pfrsue]

I have another theory. That is that we as humans are physiologically mature by the time we are sexually mature and that society for the last few hundred years has "retarded" children's growth into adulthood.

Sure, that's where teenage pregnancies come from - that wonderful physiological maturity that allows teenagers to think that getting it on in the backseat can't possibly equate a life of lost opportunities and incredible responsibilities despite all warnings, evidence and education to the contrary.

Oh, I agree that (in general) kids don't have nearly enough responsibility or accountability. I also believe that society is much more morally lax these days than it was back in the days you're referring to.

But, to be honest, blaming society for "retarding children's growth into adulthood" is really just an excuse. Anyone can come up with an excuse for anything, so I tend to be cynical about theses sorts of arguments.

(And I'm typing this at work and can't really frame my thoughts with the clarity I'd prefer.)

[Lissa]

You all have good points. And, looking at my little sister, I can see where you are probably right. The "cult of Disney" is starting to gain more and more strength and it does seem like more kids are getting into it. That doesn't take away my concerns, however, that we are ill-preparing them for the real world. Or at least they are ill-preparing themselves.

Ready for the answer to this? Stand back, it's pretty revolutionary....

Be a parent. Seriously. If you have kids, be a freaking parent to them. Take the time to talk to them about issues. Take the time to prepare them yourselves. Monitor their viewing. Discuss it with them. Let them watch or read what they're ready for, and prohibit what they're not or what you find offensive for one reason or another. Yes, it takes time. Lots of it. Yes, it takes effort. Lots of it. And no, it's not easy. I mean, heck, I can't convince Ducklet that anything besides Spaghetti-O's is fare fit for human consumption, and this is someone I can pick up. There's no guarantee of success. But that's no excuse not to try.

I was raised on "wholesome" TV- when I could be bothered to put down my book. I watched Sesame Street, Disney movies, and The Cosby Show with great regularity. And yet, I never felt exceptionally sheltered from the world. My parents told me about things like sex and drugs and AIDS and people who were mean and did nasty things. Sure, there were ways I was sheltered, because I came from a darn good home that was as Cleaver as you get for 16 years, but I was also capable of coping with what was out there. Just because I didn't have exposure to certain things didn't mean I didn't have skills to deal with them... or to learn how to deal with them on my own.

TV and movies are great things. They provide entertainment and they can even provide education, and hey- I love watching movies or certain television shows. But that's exactly what they are- entertainment with the potential for a little educational value. They are not responsible for teaching kids morality, responsibility, or anything else- that's the parents' job. If YOU don't like the message that a program is sending- and believe me, there are many I don't- then don't let your kid watch it.

As far as children's growth into adulthood, I know kids who are quite mature and responsible at 15, and I know adults who are still incredibly immature and candidates for the Darwin Awards at 40. Again, it depends on the parents and the kid and the choices that both make.

[bladestarr]

*claps hands* Bravo Lissa, Bravo!

You should really save this post and keep it, just in case. Maybe put it on your resume. It is clear, concise and powerful. I love it.