Riddle Me This

[TheLuckyOne]

Okay, gang, had a recent thought that it might not be a bad idea to have a catch-all thread to discuss any questions that have always bugged you about one movie or another, but that aren't actually answered in the movies themselves. Y'know, you can bring up a question, see if anyone else has any theories or possible explanations, that sort of thing. Whatever, we'll see how it works.

Anyway, let's kick things off with a question that occured to me today. See, I was playing the new Star Wars game at my friend's house, slaughtering rebels like a good little stormtrooper, and I suddenly remembered that, at least initially, all the stormtroopers were clones of Jango Fett, right? Okay, so my question is this- how can you possibly have a heirarchy in a military like that? How do you determine who's worthy of an advanced rank when they're all the same guy? And why would you take orders from someone you know for a fact is no smarter, tougher, or better in any way than you... because he's the exact same person? Seems like that would just be a recipe for mutiny. Anybody got any theories for how that one worked? Either try to answer that one or ask one of your own, but let's get some discussion going!

-D

[bladestarr]

Actually it was explained that from birth, they were all trained in different fields, and some of them are pushed harder than others. So, it is a question of nature vs. nuture, and thus nurture allowed certain ones to go beyond the template and become more than the others. And they all also have their trained specialties. In one of the SW games I saw my friend playing, a few of them each spoke with different accents as well, because they were trained by different teachers and so developed their tendencies.

[pfrsue]

Yup the clones themselves were developed to have specialized traits, training and varied leadership skills.

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that higher ranking officers were not clones. If follows that even in the beginning of the Clone Wars, the Republic had a pre-existing standing navy (and presumably army) of some sort. While I don't think the movie showed it, in the RotS novel, Captain Needa (or was he a lieutenant then?) commanded the ship that was blasting all kinds of hurt into Grievous's command ship during the rescue of Palpatine. Needa then appears in the next trilogy - in ESB I think - can't remember this early in the morning.

Certainly before their destruction, the Jedi served as the officers of the Clone army too - so I'm thinking the Clones either stayed at non com level or never rose higher than junior officers. It's also possible that clone production wasn't continued beyond the creation of the Empire, so the guys in the white suits might not have been clones by ANH. (Or if they were, they'd be twenty years older and since their growth was already accelerated... hmm...)

In any case, there's an interesting story arc about one clone trooper and his training and personal development in "The Cestus Deception". I sorta liked that book.

Sue

[Head Mutant]

Plus -- and I think this is backed up by the numbers of clones given in Ep 2 -- the Imperials probably had to aggressively recruit to fill their ever-diminishing ranks of Stormtroopers. There's only so much of the galaxy you can cover with the chunk of troops they started with, in addition to the losses suffered with the destruction of the first Death Star.

[TheLuckyOne]

Hmm... I think I like the idea that they eventually started outside recruiting for stormtroopers more than that they were just trained differently from birth. I'm sure it's just my unbelievably stubborn nature, but I know I could never take orders from myself, even if I knew he had been raised completely differently in every aspect of being... I'm waaaaaaay too contrary for that. You'd have an entire army of stormtroopers like the ones in Twisted Toyfare Theatre.

Anyway, asked and answered. Anybody got any others?

-D

[PoolMan]

If you want to consider it canon, Tales From the Empire followed the story of the trooper who found the droid part on Tattooine (Look sir! Droids!), who was conscripted, if I recall. I agree with Justin, the size of the force shown in the prequels was impressive, but not the kind of thing you can keep your heel on the galaxy with (hence the need for the Death Star... ain't much arguing with a weapon like that). If you follow the politics through episodes 1 to 6, they actually do make a degree of well-planned sense.

So. New question.

How on God's green earth did Indiana Jones survive the trip on the U-boat in Raiders of the Lost Ark, and how did he get off at the Nazi base on the island?

To clarify, Indy jumps ship when the Nazis kidnap Marion from Captain Ktenga's boat. He's seen swimming towards the U-boat, and all the sailors cheer. They do the little "red line on the map" transition scene, and then they cut to the hidden Nazi island base. Not only did Indy survive a trip at sea on the deck of a submarine (guess they didn't submerge), but he got OFF the sub at the far end and inside the base despite the massive guard presence at the base.

Wild theories welcomed.

[DocD83]

I don't really remember that bit of the movie, but I suppose he could survive for a few days clinging to the topside of a submarine, if they were at a suitably warm latitude. Once he got into port he could have let go early and swam away while everyone was busy with bringing the sub in and mooring it.

[Magill]

I do know that what happens to him varies on the medium. In the movie, it's assumed that the U-Boat spends most of it's time just under the surface. In the comic, it dives and Indy lashes himself to the periscope with his whip (and he's barely able to untie himself before it enters the secret lair). I think in the novelization something entirely different happens, though I don't know what.

[TheLuckyOne]

And in The Sword of Samurai Cat, Wisconsin Platt was just forced to hang on to the submarine and hope it didn't submerge. Which it didn't. Fortunately.

-D

[MrHat]

From what I remember reading about subs during the WWII era they only submerged during attacks or for evasion purposes. and concidering the part of the world they were in it is quite concievable that they ran with out submerging until they reached there base. With that being said the question might become: "how did he avoid notice of the people that would have been topside standing watch"?

[Spiderdancer]

Well, THAT'S easy. They were Movie Nazis (TM), so naturally they were barely smart enough to tie their own shoes. They were busy individually plotting ways to come back in 60 years and attempt to take over the world using other ancient artifacts, such as scrolls with the recipe for immortality written on them* or demons who have been raised on earth.**


*Bulletproof Monk
**Hellboy

[Head Mutant]

WWII subs had two methods of propulsion: (vin) diesel and electric. The electric batteries only lasted so long -- definitely not long enough to go day after day underwater, plus there was a definite shortage of air to consider. WWII subs had to make frequent trips to the surface.

As a compromise, many subs had a diesel smokestack, which would be the only thing above the water during normal travel to allow the sub to use diesel and vent the fumes, while drawing in fresh air (thus not suffocating the crew). Therefore, most subs used this method of getting around, unless enemy ships were spotted or they were on specific patrol for convoys. Yeah, the sub in Indy 3 didn't have one of those on screen, but they were pretty much the standard back then.

[DocD83]

Didn't the movie take place in the late '30s? That's a bit early for a German U-Boat to have a snorkel--according to Wikipedia, the Germans didn't have them until 1940, when they stole the idea from the conquered Dutch.

[PoolMan]

Raiders is set in 1936.

Cool info from all! Thanks!