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Post by Hucklebubba on Dec 9, 2007 0:35:00 GMT -5
I'm actually somewhat hesitant to bring this up, but if any board can handle the topic in question, and do so amicably, this one can.
I'd love--love, I tell you!--to hear some opinions from ye posters--level-headed, pleasant-smelling sorts that you are--in regards to the Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays imbroglio.
As for where I place it on the Tempest in a Teapot/Herald of the Apocalypse continuum, I'd have to say pretty far toward the former.
However, I must add that, should push come to shove, and the right-wing fundamentalists that allegedly run our country meet on the field of battle with the secular progressives that allegedly also run our country--in what history would come to call the Dumbest War Ever--I would still most likely be sharpening my battle axe and spraying my armor down with Fefilth on the side of those with "Merry Christmas" as their battle cry.
Simply because that's what it's called, and because I feel that the "Christ" part is rather critical to the holiday's meaning. And while I won't pick any fights, should someone within earshot hear me and get their feelings hurt, said individual can take solace in the knowledge that I honestly do not care. At all. Most of the time, when I say "I don't care" it would be more accurate to say "I don't care enough". But in this instance it's the genuine article; 24-karat apathy.
In my mind, it all comes down to intent. If you say "Happy Holidays" as an exercise of deliberate bird-flipping toward the religious wackos, or because you're afraid the C-word might offend somebody; congratulations, you're a douche. However, if you say "Merry Christmas" for the sake of showing Jesus what a badass you are and giving those Holiday heathens the what-for, you are a douche as well.
Hooray! Everyone's a douche! Peace and harmony! Not the way we would've preferred, but we'll take it!
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Post by TheOogieBoogieMan on Dec 9, 2007 1:11:24 GMT -5
I agree about intent, but in ways that don't involve douches. If you're a Christian around people that you know are Christians, of course you're going to say "Merry Christmas." In any other situation, it's "Happy Holidays." Christmas isn't the only holiday that's celebrated in December. Simple as that.
What bugs me about this issue is the fact that Bill-O'Reilly-type-fundamentalists rail about the sort of greeting one should give another, but if they care that much about Christmas, then why aren't they more concerned about the sanctity of the holiday? Christmas is hardly a religious holiday anymore. It's an excuse to go out and spend obscene amounts of money on things that people, for the most part, don't need...it's become Halloween, practically! The way I see it, if members of the right care enough about "preserving Christmas," then they should tell people not to trample over each other on Black Friday and to use the holiday season to honour their saviour and spend time with their families. It's called "priorities."
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Post by Hucklebubba on Dec 9, 2007 2:08:41 GMT -5
. . .then they should tell people not to trample over each other on Black Friday and to use the holiday season to honour their saviour and spend time with their families. I would make out with you if we were both girls. Er, that is to say. . .excellent point, Oogie. Quite spot on. |
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Post by sarahbot on Dec 9, 2007 4:50:55 GMT -5
It gets complicated when you don't know what people celebrate. I go over to my best friend's house and he lives with four other guys. Sam's a witch (yes, not a Wiccan), Warren's Jewish, Devon's an atheist and I don't know about the other two. Yet they have a tree and we're giving each other Christmas gifts. I really should say happy holidays but there's no bones about the fact that we're celebrating a holiday called Christmas.
I was actually just thinking about this yesterday: part of me feels bad that I celebrate Christmas. It's true that for me it's not a religious event (agnostic in the house! yay! or maybe not! we're not quite sure!). I kind of wish it was but any vestige of that faded out of my family tradition 15 years ago. How can I celebrate it when I no longer have any belief in the real event? I feel like I might as well get out the menorah. But at the same time, I'm loath to give up what is basically the biggest day for family and tradition of the year. Every time I think about giving up Christmas in terms of living on my own and such, that idea has to exclude the time I spend with my family, and that doesn't make any sense to me either.
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Post by Head Mutant on Dec 9, 2007 7:39:07 GMT -5
Wonderella (language warning) chimes in on the subject. Does it really matter, all this? Why people get up in arms over holiday terminology has to be one of the dumbest battles that we've ever created. If you celebrate something, celebrate it. If you like saying "Merry Christmas", then it's not an offensive term, and if you take it as such, then bah humbug. If you want to say "Happy Holidays" and sound like a greeting card, go for it. Doesn't impact my life none. Christmas, as a religious holiday, is a celebration, not a Christ-sanctioned holy day that thou mustn't muddle with thine own notions. Forsooth. If you want to celebrate it for that reason, then party on! If it's important to you to celebrate the holidays for your own faith or to be with family, then you're free to do so. The Christmas season brings out the best in many people -- compassion, giving, family, togetherness, celebration, joy, peace, one year free of herpes outbreaks, etc. I think people just plain love it because it's a tiny slice of what heaven will be.
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Post by Ms. Jellybean on Dec 9, 2007 9:29:15 GMT -5
I agree with the Head Mutant (and... pretty much everyone else). It's pretty generally accepted that people of all walks of life are celebrating SOMETHING in the month of December - or mighty close to it - be it Christmas or Tet or Hanukkah or Yule or Boxing Day or Kwanzaa or Sinterklaas or Day of the Immaculate Conception... well, I could go on.
The point is, in an ideal world everyone would call it what they will and people would let sleeping dogs lie. This isn't an ideal world, but that's not to say some of us shouldn't try putting it into practice.
Probably the thing that irks me the most (as a Christian, mind you) is when rabid right-wing commentators loudly proclaim that IT MUST BE CHRISTMAS as this country was "founded on Christian ideals." Actually, if they paid attention in high school history class, they'd know that the founding fathers were Deists. /end religion-themed rant
To sum it all up, I'm just one great big peace-lovin' misplaced hippie who wishes people a happy Yule, a happy solstice, and a Merry Christmas with no qualms and will peacefully accept whatever happy holiday someone else wishes her.
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Post by pfrsue on Dec 9, 2007 10:38:43 GMT -5
Y'know, in the course of my work, I usually bid my customers farewell with a cheery, "Have a nice day." Mind you, we're talking about hundreds of people every week.
Now, 999 times out of 1000, this is cool, but every so often, I get barked at because that person is NOT having a nice day and who the heck do I think I am to stick my nose in their not-nice-day business?
Well that's a shame and I'm sorry for their troubles, but I'm not going to retract my statement and I'm certainly not going to strike it from my customer service lexicon.
C'est la vie. (Or however you spell it.)
So in matters of yuletide cheer, my default statement to all and sundry is "Merry Christmas", with the understanding that just because I wish it for them, they are under no contractual obligation to celebrate Christmas, or indeed, to be merry. I'm just being nice. In my experience, the vast majority will take that in the spirit in which it is intended, no matter what they believe in. Those who don't? Oh well.
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Post by TheOogieBoogieMan on Dec 9, 2007 10:49:51 GMT -5
agnostic in the house! yay! or maybe not! we're not quite sure! Alright! Gimme five! We're like religious Switzerlands! ;D |
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Post by duckie on Dec 9, 2007 12:45:05 GMT -5
Why people get up in arms over holiday terminology has to be one of the dumbest battles that we've ever created. This reminded me of one of the most idiotic things I've heard in recent past... Australian Santas were asked not to use "ho ho ho" when greeting people in the malls. Instead, they were asked to say "ha ha ha"... something about being derogatory  |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Dec 9, 2007 22:05:48 GMT -5
Alright! Gimme five! We're like religious Switzerlands! ;D Y'know how everyone pretends to respect Switzerland's neutrality, but secretly thinks they're a bunch of weenies?  I kid, I kid. As far as the debate, the Chanukah Zombie told me it's all good. Seriously, I'm all about respecting the Lord, but Jesus wasn't actually born in December... for that matter, He probably wasn't even born in 0 A.D. It's right and proper that we celebrate His birth, but since the actual yuletide celebration had its roots in pagan celebrations, saying "happy holidays" doesn't seem disrespectful. I'll be honest: it's a non-factor to me. 9 times out of 10 I just repeat whatever the person said to me, whether it's Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. If we're close enough for me to say it proactively, I already know which to use. So I say Happy Hanukkah to my wife's family, and Merry Christmas to my parents, and Joyful Nothingness to my sister, and everyone's happy. (Although I'll say this- yesterday we spent 5 minutes in the card aisle trying to find a decent Hanukkah card for my wife's grandparents, and there was nothing. I said to her, "Aren't your people supposed to be funny?") -D |
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Post by PoolMan on Dec 10, 2007 2:05:35 GMT -5
C'est la vie. (Or however you spell it.) No, no, that's right. I look at it this way. If a Jewish person comes up to me and says Happy Hannukah, I don't get mad about it. I feel glad to be included in what they obviously mean to be an inclusive statement. Why do we worry about this so? I think what really worries "the people" is that by saying Happy Holidays, we're not honouring their particular brand of deity. I think the corporate world has decided to just go for a catch all statement. Kind of like Q: "May whatever God you believe in... heh... have mercy on your soul." See? Nothing for anyone to get upset about! |
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coccatino
Ghostbuster
whose baby are you?
Posts: 588
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Post by coccatino on Dec 10, 2007 12:20:11 GMT -5
(Although I'll say this- yesterday we spent 5 minutes in the card aisle trying to find a decent Hanukkah card for my wife's grandparents, and there was nothing. I said to her, "Aren't your people supposed to be funny?") I was shopping with a Jewish friend of mine last week and we found the only decent Hanukkah cards at the dollar store next to the Hallmark. It prompted a long and hilarious mock-tirade from her about how the dollar store is perpetuating the stereotype that Jews are cheap. It made a lot of folks shopping for cheap wrapping paper very uncomfortable. My only real issue with the 'Happy Holidays' debate is that it's taking over the entire tail end of the year, now. I've had folks wish me happy holidays as early as Halloween. Yes, I know that Halloween is a holiday, but it isn't close enough to many others to really get the incorporation, in my opinion. Macy's had their trees out in our mall in AUGUST. They had them behind some rope as they werent really 'on display' yet, but do you really need to set them up 4 months in advance? Most of the fun of Christmastime (for me, anyway) is that it is just a special time of the year... it loses its special feeling when you're bombarded with it for months on end. |
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Post by aargmematey on Dec 10, 2007 14:22:52 GMT -5
I think "The Battle" is just a small group of very uptight people who want to make a scene and make other people upset. Everyone just needs to calm down and appreciate the sentiment.
I just don't understand the mindset of getting angry over a well-wisher. It's just beyond me.
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