That reminds me....

[Hucklebubba]

The following bit from Justin's review of RotK has inspired me to spout off about something that's been bugging me for a while.

Wahoo for Galdalf, who might not know any actual magic outside of the "make a big shiny light" variety...

Therein lies my one and only Gandalf (or Galdalf)-related complaint. His wizardy aspects are somewhat lacking when compared to my presuppositions.

Wait. Allow me:

"How dare you speak a word against Gandalf! That constitutes high heresy in the geek courts! To the gallows with him!"

Y'see, I was raised in the Final Fantasy-esque tradition of "Wizard" being synonomous with "Destroys entire armies with dismissive hand gestures and makes planets collide and stuff."

All through the LotR movies, each time Gandalf went into battle, I'd think to myself, "Okay, this is the part where he starts flinging lightning bolts around."

When I first saw the scene in the trailer where he rides out to meet the wyrm-riding Nazgul, with the shiny light-making and all, I was sure he was about to roast them but good.

Unable to take a hint, I held out hope right up to the battle at the Black Gate, just positive that meteors were going to start descending at any second. Alas, it was never to be.

There. I said it. Let the lashing begin.

[PoolMan]

I don't disagree with you, Gandalf's powers were subtlely (sp?) presented. Beginning with Gandalf vs Saruman in the bout of invisible wrestling moves at Orthanc, I remember being somewhat underwhelmed with the magic.

But listening to the commentary (side note: the cast commmentary on Fellowship is about as entertaining as the movie itself... I insist we all get together and play "Tig" as soon as possible) by Peter Jackson, I kind of like that Gandalf's magic isn't that flashy. The whole "flying meteorites" thing wasn't conceived of by Tolkien, it was his imitators years later. The character isn't flashy, he's very subtle. Why should the magic be any different?

The one time where I found Gandalf to visually disappoint was the Plains of Pelenor, when he repels the wraiths with the beam of light... as he comes riding in, he's just thundering along and the staff starts to REALLY glow, you figure he's about to dish something fierce, but no, it's not to be. That was a little soft... I would have liked to have seen something a little more visually appealing there.

However, bear in mind that there's the shot of Gandalf riding to confront the Witch King that was in all the ads, but NOT the theatrical cut. I get the impression there might just be something cool yet to be seen on the EE DVD.

But overall, while I understand the complaint, I liked Gandalf the way he was. If Jackson made him too "lightning and fire", it might have been a little tired after a while. I notice one of the things Jackson repeatedly says in his commentary is the reasons for the changes he made to the story or characters (Faramir, in particular) was to keep tension up. If Gandalf can lay armies to waste by himself, what's the point in being worried?

[Head Mutant]

Always interesting how the D&D group was inspired by Tolkein, and then proceeded to pretty much reverse everything that was standard in Tolkein's universe, for the sake of gameplay. Tolkein has a wizard with a sword, who doesn't do much with magic missiles or fireballs, and is kind of a fierce fighter. D&D has wizards as supreme weaklings who can never wear armor, bear swords, but can throw flashy magic around like crazy.

[PoolMan]

Exactly! Just like Justin uses a knife when he eats dinner, even though D&D says clerics shouldn't be able to use edged weapons!

[DARTHMADLER]

Loosely based on this thread was Jusin mentioning people thinking the ending was too long. For me it wasn't the length of the endings or even that there were multiple endings. What got me was that they kept fading to black and so you thought the movie was over, get up and oops - another ending. I just think that they could have done a better job of linking them.
(And then....And thenn....And thennnn...)

[DocD83]

In the books Gandalf is quite a bit more powerful. Coming down off of Caradhras he does a nice job with those wargs with a massive wall of fire and making himself grow in size and whatnot, then there was the river pass that washed away the wraiths (Gandalf and Elrond collaborated to do that in the books), the torches in the Goblin hall in the Hobbit, and so on.

I always wondered about those kinds of games who it was that enforced the no-armor rule. Have your average D&D player try to take a sword out of a wizard's hands and you've got one roast nerd. Which, by the way, I hear is excellent with a cranberry glaze.

[Oblivion]

AND Fans of Original Triology like me, (you know there are whole armies of us, with plenty of bashing power), would flay _peter _jackson alive if he turned Gandalf into a D&D wizard.

[Oblivion]

I heard that you like nerd roast! So, I hereby suggest you the great allmighty hot goblin squash with fire troll juice! Excellent for those chilly nights, when you just killed that lich only to find a pitiful, plain, and unbearablely clear copper ring (evil, evil DMs).

[Head Mutant]

Madler, I kept expecting a voice to come on during those fade-outs that said, "MEANWHILE, at the Fortress of Doom..."

[Lissa]

In regard to the endings...

Did anyone else feel like it was a curtain call when the boys all came to Frodo's bedside?

Just a comment I've been dying to make.

[Hucklebubba]

PoolMan said:

If Gandalf can lay armies to waste by himself, what's the point in being worried?

Awww. But it would've been so cool...

Exactly! Just like Justin uses a knife when he eats dinner, even though D&D says clerics shouldn't be able to use edged weapons!

Ha. One of the few D&D rules I'm familiar with, and easily the funniest. Am I to understand that cutting people is sinful, but braining them with a giant mace is okay?

[bladestarr]

If I remember my Tolkein Lore properly, the role of the Wizards was not to decide the fate of Middle Earth through direct intervention, but rather to guide key individuals towards the "right" goals. The wizard abilities were only something to fall back on when there was no other solution. This might help explain the lack of wizbang that Gandalf displays.

[druidGirl]

Well, I like Gandalf subtle magic. I mean, I'm into fantasy and play a lot of RPGs so it wouldn'tbe anything to me if Gandalf when around shooting out fireballs or throwing down lighting bolts, but in terms of making the movie appealing to a general audience, I think it was a good choice on the part of Peter Jackson. It makes Gandalf's magic seem more believable. And makes it easier for the mainstream to absorb the world of Middle Earth. IMO.

[Head Mutant]

Well, as Pooly knows, I often carry around a heavy morningstar, should I be attacked by Beholders in the middle of Sunday School.

Another thought: isn't it *amazing* how sophisticated the healing arts are in fantasy/medieval worlds? All you got to do is just perform CURE LITE, and your hand's grown back! We should definitely tap into that today, give some cancer patients a few red (cherry flavored) healing potions. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

[DocD83]

I think that whole cleric/mace thing came from real life. Some priest wanted to fight in the crusades or whatever so he took a mace to prevent himself from breaking his vow to not spill blood.

Also Gandalf might have been doing more than you'd think...he could have been weakening the trolls or holding up walls invisibly.