Harry Potter 6 *SPOILER* thread

[loulabelle]

I just finished reading it, and I'm so hyped up. That book was just surprise after freaking surprise. Pairings galore. A death. A betrayal. And finally since the first ever HP book, Draco appears to be on his way to redeeming himself. Slowly but steadily anyway.


I'm really annoyed about the death scene, because I heard twice who and what it involved (Dumbledore and Snape) and I thought it was just a fake rumour. It wasn't


So, anyone else finished it yet? I'm so desperate to talk about it with someone, and it's late where I am ;D

[TheLuckyOne]

I haven't actually finished it yet... but Thursday night I skimmed the first 500 or so pages and then read the last 200, so I know how it ends. Yeah, I think we all knew Dumbledore would pull a Kenobi somewhere along the way, and this was the most likely time; but at the same time, I was really hoping Aragog would be the only death we saw. (Well, and Mrs. Bones.)

Shame about Snape, too. Since I only skimmed the beginning at first, I wondered about why he killed Dumbledore; figured it was some kind of trick -- not that Dumbledore wasn't dead, but that they had planned his sacrifice ahead of time for the greater good. But now, having read the first chapter, I wonder if it wasn't just because of the bond Snape invoked with Narcissa, and if he really has damned himself now, though inadvertantly. And of course, I'm wondering about the structure of the next book; will it really be the first to deviate and not be set primarily at Hogwarts, or will they find some way to get Harry back there after all?

Now, as for the Ginny thing... interesting. We all knew it would happen, of course, but I thought Rowling would get Ron and Hermione together officially first. I think I would've liked to have seen just a bit more buildup to it. As I'm still working my way through the earlier chapters, maybe there's some that I missed, but Harry suddenly noticing her seems just a bit sudden; maybe there could've been (more than just her enhanced prominence to the story) hinting at a slight attraction to Ginny in OotP. Still, for the hopeless romantics, it's a nice touch.

And finally, really neat idea with the Horicruxes. Even if Harry isn't at Hogwarts next year, the search for the remaining ones should provide plenty of action and a structure for the book to follow.

Other thoughts?

-D

[loulabelle]

Snape is one of my favourite characters, and so I've been waiting for him to bury the hatchet with Harry. I still think he's a good guy and had no choice but to kill Dumbledore. But what makes me sad is that because of what he did, he can only be redeemable by death.

All my favourite characters seem to be dying in this series. Lupin better be alive and happy by the end of the next one.

[Lissa]

Okay. Finished.

Overall? I really liked a lot of this.

I loved the politics. I loved Tom Riddle's backstory. The Horicruxes work for me. Loved the stupidity of kids dating. ("Won-Won" cwacked me up.) LOVED Phlegm. LOVED Neville's grandmother having failed her O.W.L. in Charms. Luna's Quidditch commentary cracked me up. Great humor. And ADORED chapter 2.

What I hated: not too much. I could have done with some toned-down emphasis on shipping. Not so much the kids (I work with high-school kids, and they were definitely acting like them!), but the adults. Pince/Filch, for crying out loud???

And of course, Remus/Tonks. But let me tell you why....

All right, I have "other" reasons for not liking Remus/Tonks, in that I'm one of those pesky Remus/Sirius shippers. I really don't see Mr. Emotional Constipation there as a very romantic character, and Sirius was the only relationship that worked for me. But what REALLY bugged me was Tonks's pathetic drooping into lovelorness. Oh. My. God. That was AWFUL. She was constantly depressed for MONTHS, and even when I've been depressed about a relationship, I've had ups and downs. What happened to the smart-ass, Moody-sassing, kick-butt Tonks of OotP? If Remus had gone for THAT Tonks, I could understand. But the message here? Sulk and shake the guy by his robes and he'll fall in love with you! But this is really a minor point overall. (But incidentally- he's RIGHT. He's too old, too poor, rather dangerous, shunned by society, unemployed, and a passive-agressive snot and a liar to boot. Tonks, hon, you would have been better off with Charlie Weasley!)


Other things I wasn't so fond of: Snape shouting he was the Half-Blood Prince, Harry's obsession with Draco, and... shoot. There was something else. I'm forgetting. And I wanted to shake Dumbledore, but so did everyone else so I'm not going to argue there.

Things I would have liked: Um, that Godric's Hollow trip? More about the Founders? But that I might get in Book 7.

I'm wondering if Snape is still good or evil, because every last thing he's done can be explained away by being a convincing spy or knowing what was in that potion that Dumbledore drank and practicing a little euthenasia (and I still wonder about Dumbledore and his link to the phoenix), but I'm falling more on the evil side. Which doesn't bug me. I like Snape as a character, but I've never been as drawn to him as to others. And I've never liked Draco, so I could have done with a little less Draco-obsession on Harry's part. But meh.

Oh- and guesses on R.A.B.? I'm willing to bet money it's Regulus Black.

[loulabelle]

Yeah, there was a shipping overload and it was a bit of surprise given the lack of romance in the past 5 books. Tonks behavior was very weird, I suspected she was Wormtail in disguise at one point (you know, not acting normal, crying a lot, mousey-brown hair...) but I kinda like the idea of Lupin/Tonks. Partially because they're not a "standard" couple (he's way older than her). I thought Fleur sticking with Bill at the end was sweet too.

I was disappointed that Sirius Black wasn't in it. I know he's dead, but there were hints at the end of the fifth book that somewhat suggested that Harry would communicate with him again.

But I am glad about the Draco development. It's good we're starting to see what he's really feeling.

One more thing, I hope that I finish book 7 with a smile on my face, and not feeling like someone kicked me in the stomach!

[Genetic Mishap]

I'm kind of dissapointed that Snape turned out to be a bad guy after all, and not the merely the good-guy-at-heart, brooding grouchyshoes I had him pegged as. Bummer.

[Lissa]

My problem with Tonks/Lupin is the utter re-writing of Tonks character more than anything else. Darn it, I LIKED Tonks in OotP.

I did like Bill/Fleur though, even if they reminded me a little TOO much of some people we know. (We being me and Duckie.) But the fact she'd stick with him was great.

I wasn't so disappointed that Sirius wasn't in it, but boy! Everyone got over him quick! Now, granted, I didn't think too many people (characters) liked him, but they seemed to cope really easily. That sort of bugged me.

[Al]

Yay, finished! The last hundred pages? Wotta rush! Seriously though, after spending all night and day with my nose in the book, I found myself repeatedly drawn in not as much by the actual story but by just how *different* The Half-Blood Prince was. Class, quidditch, and most of the minor characters felt like they were tossed aside in favor of really dwelling on only a handful of people. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (how much Seamus is *really* necessary?), but I was caught off guard by it. The tone, too, has darkened considerably. I mean, we knew it was coming, but Dumbledore with a blackened, withered stump for a hand? Wow. It was certainly still funny in areas, but on the whole it felt like the laughter had been sucked out of it.

I was immediately thrown off by the first two chapters, which I believe is the very first time Rowling has left Harry's point of view. The tone was so different and the content so oblique that I immediately felt a weird, uncertain curiosity that I suppose set the stage for the rest of the book. After that, the usually hysterical Dursleys were practically shoved aside by a harried and intense Dumbledore. The bit with Tonks *was* sort of wonky, but I really didn't put a whole lot of stock in it. I keep meeting people who love her, but I thought she had such a miniscule part in OOtP that there wasn't a whole lot of time to form an opinion at all. I simply assumed this was Rowling's version of war-weary All Quiet On the Western Front-style shell shock. I like that idea better.

Once Hary et al are at Hogwarts, school really seems to take a back seat, like I said above. After all the hooha over OWLS and NEWTS in the last book, you'd think there'd be more to say on sixth year studies beyond 'It was really hard.' In addition, the one thing Harry has been dreading since almost literally the beginning of Book One, Snape becoming the new Dark Arts Professor, is given little more than a single chapter.

One of the most dependable things in the books seems to have been given the boot also. The 'interesting new faculty member' post has been filled by Horace Slughorn, the red-herring Potionsmaster whose big character trait is being smarmy. Not so interesting. After Dumbledore's cryptic warnings, I found myself really underwhelmed at his role in the the grand scheme of things. It's nice to see he didn't simply turn out to be evil, but Slughorn was simply limp.

All that being said, these aren't necessarily detriments of the book. A few were disappointments, but, on the whole, I really admire Rowling's courage to turn her world on it's head. I was constantly fascinated by what felt like, for the first time, a true lack of clear direction for Harry. There had always been a goal that you were aware of by chapter ten or so, but in this case even the titular half blood prince has about as much page time as every other plot thread. So much was happening that all seemed to be pointing toward something, but you were never quite sure what. Bravo.

On top of that, as I said at the front of the post, the last 100 pages? Wow. Like Drew, I've been expecting Dumbledore to bite it since I starting reading bits of rumors about Book Five, but never at the hands of Snape. It was truly a shocker for me, I nearly dropped the book. After being told for five books to trust this slimey and petulant character, he reveals himself just when you think you've pegged him. Wow. The argument certainly exists that he had no choice, but I think this is it. No more fence-sitting, Snape's a death eater. Malfoy, on the other hand, was written beautifully, stretched to his utmost limits and revealed for what he is: a scared sixteen-year-old in over his head. The scene in the bathroom was utterly captivating.

I'm not sure I care for Harry leaving Hogwarts in book 7. I feel like so much time and energy has been devoted to it's creation that they can't spend the entire climactic volume somewhere else. I hope to see him back for that last time. It's only fitting.

Al

[Head Mutant]

Rowling did do the first chapter of the first book outside of Harry's POV, for the most part.

Definitely a better read than Order of the Phoenix, which was the most lackluster of the series so far (couldn't even bring myself to reread it to date). It snapped the focus back on Hogwarts and Rowling's traditional pillars that she rests every book on: a handful of new magical ideas, a buttload of red herrings and actual clues (which ARE distracting when you're yanked out of the story every time she drops one), slow and gradual exploration of a key mystery, and a few interesting action pieces. I'm not saying any of this is bad, but one of Rowling's failings is that she does tend to regurgitate her basic story formula (like many writers who do significant series) again and again until she has it down pat.

It was good. Not stunning. Dumbledore's death... eh. Everyone saw it coming. They really should've killed off Harry -- THAT would've been a unique twist. Dumbledore's funeral was disappointing, wish Harry or someone would've given a better speech.

Aside from the first few chapters, the return to Hogwarts really closed off the "larger" scope of the war going on in the wizarding world (and how pointless was that first chapter, anyway, for all the information it revealed?). It still seems like a very small feud between tightknit groups of good and bad guys.

Some very funny parts. A couple touching parts. Some not-so-touching parts about people touching.

Other than Rowling's creative inventions, I've come to like her books more for the exploration of the complex themes behind good and evil than for the characters themselves. George Lucas should give both his legs away to be able to tackle themes of people sliding into evil and being redeemed like this. One of my favorite quotes from the Potter books (heard elsewhere in various incarnations, as well) was "The time is coming when people will have to choose between what is right, and what is easy." That, to me, is a much more wise view of how evil gets such a large hold on the world, because the "easy" is far more chosen than someone simply going, "today, I'm going to become a murderer."

The core of the theme of this book was all on Snape, which was touched on again, and again, and again through the pages. The readers have a very moral judgment to make on this character: is he a badly-disguised evil character who is playing a double agent and spying on the good guys, or is he a bad-looking good guy who has taken genuinely hard steps to be redeemed from his evil past? Even the ending of this book, as clear as it may seem, COULD be seen either way. Let's not forget that unbreakable vow he makes to protect Draco -- was his hand forced and he killed Dumbledore knowing that's actually what Dumbledore WANTED, to protect Draco from making a horrible decision or from getting him and his mother killed? Would Dumbledore make that sacrifice? Would Snape follow that order, that vow? Was Snape's final snapping at Harry ("I'm not a coward!") his way of telling Harry that he just made one of the most difficult decisions in his life, and he chose the one path that would save Draco and his mother, and best serve the cause of good? I'd like to think so. But who knows?

Whether Snape is evil or not, I have to admire Dumbledore for his grace; that Dumbledore was more than willing to give Snape the benefit of the doubt, to give him an opportunity for redemption, to trust someone that was once untrustworthy. It's an enormous act of grace, and a lesson Dumbledore kept trying to teach Harry up to the end, that Harry couldn't let his anger overreach his sense of compassion, that Harry had to offer people every opportunity to make the right choice, no matter how hard it might be.

'Tis interesting. And a good read. We'll see how things go in the last book.

[Head Mutant]

Couple sentences about Snape that might prove interesting about his character:

"'DON'T--" screamed Snape, and his face was suddenly demented, inhuman as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the buring building behind them-- "CALL ME COWARD!"

[emphasis added]

"For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading... Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face... 'Severus... Please...'"

What, exactly, was Dumbledore pleading Snape to do or not to do? Why, exactly, was Snape revulsed? What are your assumptions, and then what does the book say or not say to back that up?

Another judgement for the reader to make: do we put our trust in Dumbledore, as he asked Harry to, when it came to Snape?

[Al]

Judgement rescinded. Interesting points I'll have to dwell on...

Al

[TheLuckyOne]

I think it's pretty clear that all is not as it appears with Snape. I mean, I could be wrong, but it's a classic writer trick; you don't spend that long hinting at something, then very quickly prove it false, and have every single character stand around with jaws agape saying "I can't BELIEVE how wrong we were about him!" No, he's definitely not what Harry and the others think... my only question is whether this is something that was planned, or something that Snape was absolutely forced to do because of the Unbreakable Vow, knowing that he has a larger role to play going forward than Dumbledore.

Ah well; we'll find out in an other couple years. The real question, of course, is whether Harry will find out before he (or someone else) kills Snape...

Really cool stuff with Greyhame too, I thought. If anyone needs any more evidence that the books have gotten darker, look no further than him mauling Bill in human form, of all things.

All in all, I'm just sooo happy that Harry's scar has finally stopped hurting. Whatever else you say about this book, it was a blessed relief after 5 books of either Harry's scar hurting every other chapter or having the same freaking dream fifty bloody times!!!!! about a door he just can't get through. Enough already!

-D

[Lissa]

Yeah, I'm firmly believing that Snape isn't all he seems as well. And how hard before this have we been hit over the head with the imagery of Dumbledore and pheonixes? Order of the Phoenix, phoenix Patronus, and Fawkes for a bet? (Bets on Dumbledore the White, anyone? Or some variation thereof?)

The backstory with Voldemort was AWESOME, though. I loved the twist on his parents- he's always percieved that his father left his mother because she was a witch, in a Dursley-esque manner. WRONG! Your father left your mother because she was essentially kidnapping him and slipping him a date rape drug. (And were the Gaunts out of Deliverence, or what?) It was a fantastic twist that I didn't expect at all.

Greyback should be some serious fun. (erm, at least in fanfic.) But wow, he was creepy. If Lupin is a thinly veiled metaphor for someone with MS or HIV, Greyback was a child molester. Wow- I couldn't believe that was in there. And a cannibal, besides.

What made me happiest about this book was the development and info on Voldie. Before this, he was very 2-D. I've tried to write him, and good luck doing it without having the Imperial Death March playing in your head. But now, I feel like he's got some depth and some character.

And by the way, Lily was good at potions Want another smack with the Sledgehammer of Subtlety?

ETA: and my longer raves for anyone who's interested in LJ: www.livejournal.com/users/lupinslittlesis/22783.html#cutid1

[DarthToad]

Well, it took me a bit longer than a lot of the people here to read it. I blame jet lag and not being home the night it came out.

Anyway, I had a feeling an hour ago when I finished it that was quite similar to how I felt right after seeing Batman Begins, but more intense. Yes, it's the "whoa" feeling.

Okay, this time, I cannot wait another two years. JK, I want it next year! Let's go back to the old system, eh?

The next book sounds like it could be really good, but there's this feeling I have inside that it'll be more like Final Fantasy than Harry Potter because he's going to spend all his time looking for the hocruxes, not that that's actually a bad thing.

I keep thinking about what'd happen if someone had a lifetime supply of Felix Felicis. What would happen if he faced Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen and Neo from The Matrix in a fight? Who would win in the ultimate battle of omnipotence? I am so tempted to do a fanfic.

Here's a hint: R.A.B. is the walrus. Or maybe it really says R.A.F. I knew that first chapter had some relevence!

Eh, maybe Harry will go back for his seventh year after all. Anyway, still have to digest everything. More later.

[Genetic Mishap]

Didn't Slughorn say Felix Felicis was toxic, only to be taken in small amounts?