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Post by TheOogieBoogieMan on Sept 16, 2005 15:48:45 GMT -5
Does anyone know of any graphic novel review sites? I've been using www.grovel.org.uk/index.htm for a while, but are there any others worth checking out? |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 16, 2005 16:27:37 GMT -5
Silver Bullet Comics reviews comics and TPBs (www.silverbulletcomics.com). The Fourth Rail (www.thefourthrail) reviews some as well, though they're both -- while funny -- more than a little pretentious, so take them with a grain of salt.
-D
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Post by siegeshot on Sept 16, 2005 19:41:35 GMT -5
I picked up this months issue of Ironman, it was 3 of 6 in their current little saga they have going on, and it super depressed me. I'm so glad that the Marvel Universe isn't real. Horrible things happen to all of them. But I was thinking to myself, after the last few frames of what this new super person was doing to Ironman.... I was just like. I wish Hulk had been there, but like, if the guy could crush Ironmans armor with no effort and withstand all of Ironman's cool things..
its just like what the crap man..... Ironman once donned hulk buster armor and took the hulk on. I know he was just wearing his normal armor this time, and I don't know what its made out of anymore, but this guy was crumpling Ironman's armor like he was a little tin can.
And the reasoning behind how this guy was so strong wouldn't logically lead to him being able to pick up a car anyway.
Does anyone here read Ironman?
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Doctor Teeth
Boomstick Coordinator
The Doctor will see you now.
Posts: 67
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Post by Doctor Teeth on Sept 20, 2005 12:45:45 GMT -5
Does anyone know of any graphic novel review sites? I've been using www.grovel.org.uk/index.htm for a while, but are there any others worth checking out? Aside from the sites that were previously mentioned, I would suggest Silver Bullet Comic Books (not the same as Silver Bullet Comics) and Sequential Tart, both of whom have a fairly sizeable archive of TPB and GN reviews. The pretentiousness warning is still in effect for these ones, but they'll give you some food for thought, anyhow. |
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Post by Head Mutant on Sept 26, 2005 9:06:07 GMT -5
Hey Drew-Drew, just letting you know I bought and read through Watchmen. Interesting, I can see where it gets its status, but honestly I was quite underwhelmed with it all. Not because it lacks the typical fun-and-battles of superhero comics, but just because (and maybe this is Moore's style) it's so bleak, depressing and even somewhat tedious in parts. The finale was smashing, yet lacking substantially, and I just wanted to about smack everyone in that comic around for my own benefit.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 26, 2005 9:20:14 GMT -5
Heh... no, I can understand where you're coming from, and it's a valid criticism. I think what's important to remember is that yes, it's bleak, and yes, it's depressing in places... but it does have a somewhat hopeful ending, and I don't think it was meant to be taken as seriously as many people do. Watchmen and the OTHER story that's often given the "best comic ever" moniker, The Dark Knight Returns, are both bleak, yes, and both contributed to the overwhelming darkness the industry went through from the mid-80s through the early 90s... but both Alan Moore and Frank Miller have frequently gone on record as saying that they never intended these stories to be the be-all and end-all of superhero stories, nor do they feel that a depressing, dark attitude toward superheroes is the "right" one, per se. They were adult stories, they took dark paths, but both creators have done much lighter fare as well.
I don't know, I'm probably rambling. I think Watchmen is fascinating and reveals more layers with each reading, but it's absolutely a dark tale, no question about that, and I can see where you're coming from. If you're looking for comic stories that are "adult" and don't much involve superheroes, but are more hopeful than Watchmen, might I suggest Sandman? Neil Gaiman is the Man.
-D
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Post by Head Mutant on Sept 26, 2005 10:05:00 GMT -5
I might be a novice in the whole graphic novel arena, but I have tried to cover the biggies. I do have Frank Miller's main Batman books at home, and I have read through a majority of the Sandman series. Good stuff. I wasn't trying to be TOO down on Watchmen, because I do like just the out-of-the-box thinking about our presuppositions about superheroes and how ridiculous they may be -- if it happened for real in the world today, it would probably be much different, and probably much more like Moore's vision (flying owl machine aside). I didn't really see the ending as positive at all -- sure, a couple of the characters achieved temporary happiness, but it all appears to say that it's an empty victory for most involved, many of whom lost a great deal for stupidity.
Watchmen struck me -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- as a long essay on saying not only how flawed the world is, but how there's really no "good" out there, just lesser forms of evil. Even the typical "good guys" are pretty much corrupt, inhuman or weak through-and-through. I thought the confrontation on Mars, where Doc M is asking to be convinced why humanity should be saved, the weakest part of the whole book. The debate struck me as missing a lot of crucial points, the greatest of which was appealing to Doc M's lost sense of humanity and emotions (which turned him into my personal most reviled character in the novel). In Moore's worldview, there seems to be no compelling reason why people should be saved from their own destructive desires, and if you're even going to attempt to do good, you're going to fall, hard.
But hey, at least it made me think, and that's always a good thing, eh?
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 26, 2005 12:03:38 GMT -5
Definitely a good thing. My feeling about the end of Watchmen is that it forces the reader to examine his or her own views on the whole "do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" thing. I'm going to get into SPOILER territory here, so anyone who hasn't read it should skip this part, but... ...what it comes down to is that Ozymandias behaved unconscionably in his pursuit of peace between world powers, murdering millions of innocents... but at the same time, it did seem to be working in the end. The feeling I got (and you may disagree) is that the U.S. and Russia had gotten to talking and made the first tentative steps toward ending the Cold War; whereas as they made plain earlier, if it came to nuclear war, Dr. Manhattan couldn't stop all of the nukes headed for the U.S. even if he decided he wanted to. It would have been global annihilation, and what all of the heroes had to decide for themselves was whether it was morally justifiable to keep quiet about it- it was forcing them to step outside of the standard, black-and-white stereotypical comic book ideology of absolute good vs. absolute evil and introducing greys into it. Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre ultimately decided that, as terrible as Ozymandias's actions were, blowing the whistle on it would have invalidated the entire thing- those millions of people would have died for nothing, and we'd still be on the brink of nuclear war. They had to compromise their own principles, and they chose to do so for the greater good. But then you have a moral absolutist like Rorschach who, as he puts it, "Never. Never compromise. Not even in the face of armageddon." He would have condemned the world to fiery death in order to bring Ozymandias to justice... but would that make him more morally pure than the others? Or would the blood of the millions who would die in nuclear war be partially on his hands? Does the fact that he's more "morally pure" than the others make up for the fact that he's clearly insane, and that he's one of the few mystery men willing (actually, eager) to kill the criminals he hunts? Was it a good thing that his diary was potentially going to be published in the end? If it had, truth would have prevailed... but then again, the world would be back on the brink of nuclear war... is that justifiable in the pursuit of truth? I think those are the questions Watchmen forces us to ask ourselves, and while they may not always be comfortable, they're things that are worth knowing about ourselves. But again, mileage will vary. Have you read Death: The High Cost of Living, J?  -D |
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DTH
Ghostbuster
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Posts: 582
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Post by DTH on Oct 18, 2005 17:40:18 GMT -5
2. I wasn't feeling New X-Men at all- he just didn't get the characters, so he turned them into who he wanted them to be, not who they are. Unprofessional. *cough* Jeph Loeb *cough* Alan Moore has done some very good stuff, but I hear his more recent stuff is less than stellar. So I hear. Chris Claremont: he's a good solid writer. I personally wouldn't call him a master of the genre. But that is my opinion. Oh and you forgot Warren "Authority" Ellis. And Mark "Ultimates" Millar. Bad Drew, bad!  Madrox is a really popular character but I've never gotten it. Why's he cool? |
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DTH
Ghostbuster
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Posts: 582
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Post by DTH on Oct 18, 2005 17:44:57 GMT -5
i don't anything more than the first two tpbs of the authority. what else has ellis done that's worth reading? anyone? There are LOADS of people who go NUTS over Transmetropolitan. Not read it myself but since The Authority is the dogs bollox, I'd be inclined to check it out! |
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DTH
Ghostbuster
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Posts: 582
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Post by DTH on Oct 18, 2005 17:54:22 GMT -5
Vicki Vale's Penthouse Special? Yeah, I picked it up. Sex and the City meets Carmen Electra... yow! Oh, and I think Robin might have been in a couple of pages too.  -D LOL! Drew, I find myself agreeing more and more with your comic book views. |
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DTH
Ghostbuster
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Posts: 582
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Post by DTH on Oct 18, 2005 18:01:36 GMT -5
Just to add my £0.02p. 1. Anything by Vertigo is awesome. Hellblazer, Preacher, Sandman, Lucifer: completely amazing. 2. Jeph Loeb is rumoured to be taking over the Ultimates book after Mark Millar leaves and that makes me cry. 3. Bendis is overrated. 4. What the heck is Joe Straczinsky doing with Spider-man?? 5. House of M was ok but infinitely predictable, for the most part, however, it has a rather large ramification: SPOILERApparently, all but 198 mutants will be left on Earth post-M and those will be downpowered. Furthermore, no new mutant characters will be created. Of course, that is until someone decides to change this (I give it 6 months and that's being WAY generous). 6. Joss Whedon is apparently doing amazing things with Asthonishing X-Men. Discuss. 7. Infinite Crisis: I've read the Sacrifice storyline, the Day of Vengeance and have nearly finished the OMAC Project. I've enjoyed all that so much more than anything from House of M. Which also makes me sad. 8. Its now en vogue for Superman to have red eyes when he's angry. Does anyone else think thats cool? |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Oct 18, 2005 22:24:39 GMT -5
Alan Moore has done some very good stuff, but I hear his more recent stuff is less than stellar. So I hear. Hmm... League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is amazing, no question about it, and that's fairly recent. I haven't read much of the rest, though I hear terrific things about Promethea. But it's not to everyone's tastes. Chris Claremont: he's a good solid writer. I personally wouldn't call him a master of the genre. But that is my opinion. Fair enough. I can understand people who feel that his melodramatic, "every issue is someone's first so recap everything" style is outdated, and I can respect differing views. To my mind, however, there can't be any question. Everything, literally everything that people remember about the X-Men, was his direct handiwork (with talented collaborators, true). Every story that your average person is familiar with was written by him, every character your average person knows was either created or defined by him. Everything from the movies? Claremont. The cartoon shows? Claremont. He invented the crossover (for better or for worse), he wrote the most powerful, moving death scene of any comic book character to date, and he gave us the definitive dark, dystopian future of the Marvel Universe in Days of Future Past. Just as an example, Magneto? Originally a stereotypical, pompous, monologuing "I want to take over the world nyah hah hah!" Silver Age villain. After Claremont got done with him? A Holocaust survivor who vowed that his people wouldn't suffer as the Jews did and was willing to do anything necessary to keep that from happening... but who gradually came to realize the error of his ways, stood trial before a World Court, and even became headmaster of the school after Xavier was incapacitated. I'm biased, of course- Claremont also penned my all-time favorite Magneto speech, from when he finally returned to villainy in Uncanny X-Men #274: Rogue: "The blood and rage and hate, they can't sustain you, don't you see, only destroy! Is that what you want? You found a better way with the X-Men... d'you want to turn your back on it?!" Magneto: "And for those efforts, Rogue, what have I accomplished? The New Mutants were left in my charge and they suffered for it -- because I tried to pattern myself after Charles Xavier. I am not Charles Xavier. I will never be Charles Xavier. I was a fool to try. As he was, for believing I could succeed. My people are in danger -- more so now than ever before -- from the Hellfire Club and their accursed Shadow King, from foul creatures such as this, perhaps even from the United Nations which Colonel Fury loyally serves. And a kinder, gentler Magneto cannot save them." Oh and you forgot Warren "Authority" Ellis. And Mark "Ultimates" Millar. Bad Drew, bad! I... didn't forget Mark Millar. He's got talent, no question, and I enjoy Ultimates. But he's also too stuck in the big-budget blockbuster mentality, doesn't pay enough attention to characterization... he's better these days, but [Yoda]he is not a master yet.[/Yoda] (Hell, anyone who has Wolverine sleeping with an underage Jean Grey has a ways to go in my book.) Warren Ellis is another up-and-comer, someone I'd definitely put above Millar. No interest whatsoever in Authority, but Planetary is sheer magic, no question. He's a little too stuck in his anti-superhero prejudices, though; and anyone who creates a character based on himself for the sole purpose of having him sleep with Kitty Pryde has, I fear, also some ways to go.  Madrox is a really popular character but I've never gotten it. Why's he cool? He's cooler than school, man. Okay, put it this way- if you could have the powers of any Marvel character to use in the real world, who would you choose? Time's up... yes, the correct answer was "Madrox the Multiple Man." All the rubes give answers like "Wolverine" or "Spider-Man," and... yeah, those powers would be fun to have. But in the absence of superheroing, what're you going to be? Stuntman? Movie star? That's fine, very conventional; but those with creativity think, "Hmmm, how can I make the most of this deal? With Madrox's powers, I'll study 40 different subjects at once in school and become the world's smartest man within half a decade. Then I'll accept 30 different high-paid job offers, live in (and pay rent on) one apartment and recombine when I need to eat to save money, and put the other 10 of me to work having fun every day. I'll canvass 40 different bars every night, and whoever the cutest girl is who digs my style, that's who we're taking home. I'll learn every major world language in half a year, study every martial art. Need to get that big project done? Fine, I'll send another of me out to get drunk tonight and still get it done. Want to live forever? I'll cryogenically freeze one of me every 20 years! Locked myself out of my apartment? Stick a finger under the door and make a dupe on the inside... done! Cracked a rib? As long as I've got a healthy one of me out there, recombine with him to halve the wound, and keep doing that until it's practically healed." Beginning to get the picture now? Put that up against optic blasts and tell me which one YOU'D rather have. Add in the fact that Madrox is a jokester, hilarious to readers, but also has the deep-seated emotional issues that keep him interesting, and I don't see how anyone could NOT be fascinated by the guy. But again, that's me; your mileage may vary. -D |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Oct 18, 2005 22:43:04 GMT -5
6. Joss Whedon is apparently doing amazing things with Asthonishing X-Men. Discuss. Joss has a great ear for dialogue and a love of classic Claremont stories that makes him a good choice to write the X-Men... hell, Buffy and Willow are just what you'd get if you split Kitty Pryde into two people. He generally writes Claremontian stories with an updated sense of style and dialogue, which is refreshing and works well for a newer generation. His first arc on Astonishing fell into the trap of decompression, begun by Bendis and now the established style for Marvel (space it out over 6 issues, that way it'll fit neatly into a trade paperback!), and it dragged in places, but it was fun and generally satisfying. His second arc, just completed, was less so... still good dialogue, but it required massive revision of extablished characterization, featured a so-so, rather uninspired villain, and may (unless things are not what they seem, which is quite possible) have trampled all over another writer's recently extablished story. Overall, he's doing pretty well; but no one will be talking about his run reverently a decade from now, like they will about Morrison and Claremont. Now, my turn: the new X-Factor book, starring Madrox the Multiple Man and written by the hilarious, immensely talented Peter David, launches in November. Longshot will be joining the Exiles early next year. Greatest next few months ever? Discuss. -D |
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DTH
Ghostbuster
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Posts: 582
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Post by DTH on Oct 19, 2005 6:48:43 GMT -5
Hmm... League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is amazing, no question about it, and that's fairly recent. I haven't read much of the rest, though I hear terrific things about Promethea. But it's not to everyone's tastes. Totally concur, loved "League" but I understand that volume 2 is no where near as good. I have the first two TPBs for Promethea. It was very interesting but neither the character of Promethea herself grabbed me nor the cyberpunky future. <snip> Fair enough. I will concede that Claremont is an important writer and certainly deserves a lot more credit that people over at Z-Cult are giving him at the moment. My feelings toward Claremont are mixed. I (personally) don't consider him to be a master of the art, purely because, while his storytelling is great, his style has been surpassed by more modern techniques. With Claremont, I have had a 14 year break, having had first Xposure (see how funny I am ) with the Claremont/Jim Lee showcase title, X-Men. I loved what he did with the Acolytes and Magneto back then. I only stopped reading it because Jim Lee left to form Wildstorm and the artwork was part of the attraction. Having come back to comics with the Ultimates stuff and investigated some "616" stuff, Claremont hasn't changed while my tastes have. To be fair to him, I can't blame him nor writers like him (Frank Miller is a perfect example of someone still putting out the same stuff that has always done): they've made their name with a particular style, so why change. As I said, I'm conflicted. I want to agree with you and I really do see your point, but even Jeph Loeb has managed to move with the times. That's fair, I suppose. He is very much, "story story story". He writes very movie-like and I think this is part of the reason why I love his work. I think he does give a good level of characterisation, but he definitely focusses on certain characters and neglects others. Ultimates 2 does a great job of building on Thor though and I'm all for that Also, I love the mix of politics/conspiracy and dirty superhero action. And I absolutely LOVED it when Cap beat the snot out of Giant Man LOL! I never knew he did that That's a bit...sad. I love Stormwatch/The Authority with a passion. And I've heard no END of good things about Planetary/Transmetropolitan. I think I'll concede that both Millar and Ellis are rising stars with a bright present and even brighter future, if they can temper their ways. He sounds interesting. I'll see if I can check some stuff out. My only knowledge of him is in the most excellent Earth X/Universe X where he becomes the next Wendigo... Now that was really cool. |
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-D