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Post by Storm_Rider on Nov 4, 2008 14:20:27 GMT -5
On a related note, it struck me as odd that Papa Petrelli killed Maury without stealing his power last week. I mean, that's a pretty solid power, and all Arthur would've had to do would be to grab him before snapping his neck. Makes me wonder if he doesn't plan on just taking it from Matt instead (or if he already has his own version). -D Think back to the episode when he sucks Adam's ability, Adam talks to him as if they were having a conversation, so that would mean that he has some sort of telepathic ability already, probably the same or maybe better than Maury's. |
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Post by PoolMan on Nov 4, 2008 16:19:26 GMT -5
Not necessarily. Could have been just Arthur (I'm trying to get away from calling them Mama and Papa) thinking as normal, Maury "reading" him, and we saw Maury speak back. If Arthur had the psychic thing, Maury wouldn't need to speak.
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Post by Storm_Rider on Nov 4, 2008 16:33:26 GMT -5
During that scene yes, but in regards to Matt and Maury's powers, presuming Arthur doesn't have any telepathic power, I think Maury wouldn't have had to speak at all, he could have just projected his words into Arthur's head, we know that they can project images/hallucinations and thoughts into other people's brains, so I think Maury speaking was just for the benefit of the viewer and for the actor's acting skills.
Even if we were to take that scene on what it gives us, it still doesn't explain why Adam was acting like he was having a conversation with Arthur.
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Post by StarOpal on Nov 4, 2008 20:29:39 GMT -5
Heroes co-exec producers Jesse Alexander and Jeph Loeb were fired November 2nd. The two, who’ve been with the show since season one and who led day-to-day production under Tim Kring, were let go because of NBC’s frustration over the creative direction of the show, budget overruns, and sinking ratings. “Kring has reportedly assured NBC and Universal Media Studios, which produces the series, that he intends to focus on simplifying what's been criticized, even by ardent fans, as an overly complex storytelling structure to get back to the show's comic-bookish good-vs.-evil themes and to emphasize character development more than plot twists.”
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Post by PoolMan on Nov 5, 2008 1:51:11 GMT -5
Sooo... back to normal by Season 4?
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Post by CheshireKat on Nov 7, 2008 17:58:39 GMT -5
Here's hoping. *fingers crossed*
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Post by Storm_Rider on Nov 11, 2008 16:58:54 GMT -5
That was such a kick-ass episode, we found out a whole lotta back-story, and I enjoyed all the little nods and twists and turns that crept in from season 1. We got to see that Sylar wasn't Sylar from the start, and his behavior after his first murder really makes his behavior in the possible future that more plausible. We also got to see how and why he became Sylar, and this adds credence to StarOpal's theory that Elle would be future Noah's mom. We also got to see how much more of a villain Arthur is rather than Linderman and generally how all the events in season 1 came to pass. We also got to see that at least one of Arthur's pre-poisoning powers was the Parkman-like telepathy. I don't recall when the African Seer's name was mentioned - Usutu , probably in the Pinehearst file- but man I'm annoyed that he died, he was such an interesting and laid-back character, too bad he had to go. So for next week, Hiro is in deep crap, I hope Ando saves him, and as far as the promos show, the plot-line continues and another eclipse is mentioned. 5 episodes left from this chapter and it's finally starting to shape up. The opening sequence was also uber-kewl  made me all giddy to see the Helix and Villains instead of Heroes, a nice temporary change considering the episode. |
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Post by StarOpal on Nov 11, 2008 18:54:46 GMT -5
I'm hoping that Hiro only thinks he woke up, and is still actually on his vision quest. If Usutu (so I'm not the only one who didn't catch the name earlier? Here I just thought I'd missed it) really is dead I'm gonna be so bummed out.
If Arthur's power works by actually taking someone's else's power, than it couldn't have been Maury's right? So someone just like Maury? Really weird.
I felt bad for Gabriel and Elle, but it was nice to see the ol' Primatech HRG from season one again. I also like the idea that, in a way, he made Sylar, it's positively Greek. And, even if Christopher Eccleston wasn't actually there, I like the nod to Claude.
Speaking of Claude, I will say that the timeline seemed a weird. It would seem that Claude was still working for Primatech when season one started, but why would he have been working with Eric Roberts instead of Noah? It made it look like Meredith and her brother were maybe living a lifestyle where they would've had to stay on the move, but when Claire meets her in season one, just days after the train wreck, it looks like she's been living in that trailer a while. Gabriel is still in New York becoming Sylar when he should've been in California killing Molly's parents, and they made it seem like he'd only killed the telekinesis guy when HRG and Elle track him down, but HRG gets into Mohinder's cab which would place it after Sylar breaks the elder Prof. Suresh's neck. It may be nitpicky, because I did appreciate the back story, but it just felt off.
Is it just me or does it seem like maybe Angela had a thing going with most of the Founders? And, yay, she got to slap someone again. Every time Mama Petrelli slaps someone an angel gets its wings.
Loved the Villains intro and the idea of the eclipse coming back into play.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Nov 12, 2008 0:47:23 GMT -5
We got to see that Sylar wasn't Sylar from the start, and his behavior after his first murder really makes his behavior in the possible future that more plausible. Yeah, it was a nice callback to early season 1, where he actually seemed to be tormented by what he was doing. Of course, it doesn't jibe at all with the unfeeling schemer of later season 1, or the season 2 Sylar who murdered people when he no longer had "the Hunger," but at least it seems like they're trying to clean up their mess a bit. Speaking of Claude, I will say that the timeline seemed a weird. It would seem that Claude was still working for Primatech when season one started, but why would he have been working with Eric Roberts instead of Noah? It made it look like Meredith and her brother were maybe living a lifestyle where they would've had to stay on the move, but when Claire meets her in season one, just days after the train wreck, it looks like she's been living in that trailer a while. Gabriel is still in New York becoming Sylar when he should've been in California killing Molly's parents, and they made it seem like he'd only killed the telekinesis guy when HRG and Elle track him down, but HRG gets into Mohinder's cab which would place it after Sylar breaks the elder Prof. Suresh's neck. It may be nitpicky, because I did appreciate the back story, but it just felt off. Agreed. I also liked the nod to Claude, but my first thought was, "Wait, hadn't he been on the run for years before Peter found him, but this is supposed to be just one year ago?" They're screwing up their own timeline in their efforts to rehabilitate Sylar. The nitpicker in me hates that, but I can handle it if it's in the service of the show getting back on track. Here's hoping. -D |
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Post by Storm_Rider on Nov 12, 2008 5:06:45 GMT -5
Of course, it doesn't jibe at all with the unfeeling schemer of later season 1, or the season 2 Sylar who murdered people when he no longer had "the Hunger," True, but I'm thinking it on more of a psychological level, after he killed the telekinesis guy and the explode crap guy, he gave into the Hunger and became Sylar, he noticed early on that his ability was like a drug, and he got addicted to it. Now for season 2, that's also true but my point is, by that time he was so deep into his serial killer persona, killing people began to feel natural to him. Also he might have thought at least for a while that he still had the Hunger because he killed Candice, and thankfully he didn't get her morphing power, that would have been a bit too much for his repertoire of abilities. As for Claude, it is intriguing because obviously he was there at the shop, but he wasn't there on the train, anyway he did make a come-back but in the comics, after Elle is let go from the Company she somehow tracks him down in London to ask for advice on her screwy powers. |
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Post by Al on Nov 12, 2008 7:46:59 GMT -5
I really hate the fact that I can't get into this season of Heroes. I'm honestly trying. To their credit, the showrunners are injecting enough of the neat little moments in each episode that I keep coming back for the next week, but the big stuff? I feel like I have issues with nearly all of it, not the least of which is their attempt to neuter every villain on the show.
Sylar isn't really a bad guy! He's the victim of The Hunger or The Company or... whatever.
Angela wasn't always a heartless manipulator! She was driven to it by her big meanie of a husband!
When Sylar growled 'I'm back!' at the end of season two, it felt like a (very) brief return to the excitement and the danger and the edginess that the show used to have. It was definitely present in the first episode of this season, too, but I'm not sure I've seen it since.
I mean, there's a reason that Iago is everyone's favorite Shakespeare villain--he's a heartless, sociopathic sonuvamother. Would he have to get a bit more complex if you wanted to build a TV show around him? Sure. But there are ways to do that without sacrificing the core of his character. Look at Ben on Lost: he's had his 'I'm the creepy puppetmaster' vibe since the middle of season 2, but they've also been able to instill a real human being inside of him that you can root for and feel bad for and relate to without ever forgetting that he is a very, very dangerous man who would have your throat slit if it served his purposes.
Also, the whole Peter/Nathan/Sylar brother thing feels contrived and I still hold out hope that it's all actually one big mind game, but I fear not. Nathan is Claire's father? Shocking. Angela is Sylar's mother? Meh.
I'm annoyed with this past episode's handling of Elle, too. She was a truly great character last season because she managed to walk the line of being powerful and confident but, at the same time, woefully inexperienced in how the real world works and how to deal with people outside the context of a mission. Now, suddenly, it turns out that she's seduced men and come to spirit-crushing realizations about her employer before any of our original characters even had their abilities? I don't buy it.
Oh, and the wanton murder of good characters? Also not cool. Isaac gets offed late in season 1? Woah! Sylar kills Bob and Veronica Mars-guy, Papa Petrelli kills off Maury and Adam and now apparently African Guy? I feel like the writers are squandering a whole lot of potential in the name of quick gratuitous shocks that allow them to A) duck out of a storyline they don't like (which they seem to have several of this season) or B) build up a character who so far hasn't interested me in the slightest. One good thing I'll admit about this tactic is that I totally bought it last week when Fear Guy put his fist through Matt Parkman's chest.
I'm not done with the show or anything, I'm willing to be strung along for a little while longer, but I'm working through some serious frustration and disappointment with TV right now.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Nov 12, 2008 9:17:57 GMT -5
On a related note (pun intended), does it seem like every character on the show is now either part of the same family or dating? I mean, Arthur and Angela gave birth to Nathan, Peter, and apparently Sylar. Sylar and Peter were both sweet on Elle, who was related to Bob. Nathan is currently sleeping with Jessica, but previously had a relationship with Meredith that spawned Claire. Meanwhile, Flint is Meredith's brother, making him Claire's uncle, while Noah Bennet is Claire's adopted father. That is one comic book-worthy family tree, my friends. X-Men fans know that even the Summers family is barely that complex. I think the number of Petrelli blood relatives actually outnumbers all the other characters on the show now.
-D
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Post by StarOpal on Nov 12, 2008 13:43:30 GMT -5
I concur, Elle was one of the things I liked about last season. Socially awkward, overly confident in some areas and inexperienced in others. Not to mention a little mad. She was cute, and a little pathetic, in her sadistic shock happy crushing on Peter sort of way. I get that they're pulling away from season two, but this is a change that makes zero sense. I think Season 2 Elle could've had a perfectly believable relationship with a reformed Sylar (if that's what they needed) with no extraneous backstory, were the writing handled properly. Not to mention if HRG would've been working with anyone (since Angela was using the Hatian) it would've been Eden, who would've totally been the perfect choice for a 'get close to and manipulate' mission, just like with Mohinder. Oh but that's right, they messed up the timeline. On a related note (pun intended), does it seem like every character on the show is now either part of the same family or dating? I mean, Arthur and Angela gave birth to Nathan, Peter, and apparently Sylar. Sylar and Peter were both sweet on Elle, who was related to Bob. Nathan is currently sleeping with Jessica, but previously had a relationship with Meredith that spawned Claire. Meanwhile, Flint is Meredith's brother, making him Claire's uncle, while Noah Bennet is Claire's adopted father. That is one comic book-worthy family tree, my friends. X-Men fans know that even the Summers family is barely that complex. I think the number of Petrelli blood relatives actually outnumbers all the other characters on the show now. -D You're not the only one to notice, we're getting into a "full blackboard and butcher paper"* situation. If I had more time on my hands, I'd draw out a family/relationships tree (complete with my own commentary and doodles of course), though I'm not sure I could get it all to fit on one sheet of paper. *This comes from years of genealogy and history projects. It's when you reach the point that it becomes too tangled to just write down the connections in a notebook. |
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Post by Storm_Rider on Nov 12, 2008 14:30:09 GMT -5
I concur, Elle was one of the things I liked about last season. Socially awkward, overly confident in some areas and inexperienced in others. Not to mention a little mad. She was cute, and a little pathetic, in her sadistic shock happy crushing on Peter sort of way. I get that they're pulling away from season two, but this is a change that makes zero sense. I think Season 2 Elle could've had a perfectly believable relationship with a reformed Sylar (if that's what they needed) with no extraneous backstory, were the writing handled properly. Not to mention if HRG would've been working with anyone (since Angela was using the Hatian) it would've been Eden, who would've totally been the perfect choice for a 'get close to and manipulate' mission, just like with Mohinder. Oh but that's right, they messed up the timeline. On a related note (pun intended), does it seem like every character on the show is now either part of the same family or dating? I mean, Arthur and Angela gave birth to Nathan, Peter, and apparently Sylar. Sylar and Peter were both sweet on Elle, who was related to Bob. Nathan is currently sleeping with Jessica, but previously had a relationship with Meredith that spawned Claire. Meanwhile, Flint is Meredith's brother, making him Claire's uncle, while Noah Bennet is Claire's adopted father. That is one comic book-worthy family tree, my friends. X-Men fans know that even the Summers family is barely that complex. I think the number of Petrelli blood relatives actually outnumbers all the other characters on the show now. -D You're not the only one to notice, we're getting into a "full blackboard and butcher paper"* situation. If I had more time on my hands, I'd draw out a family/relationships tree (complete with my own commentary and doodles of course), though I'm not sure I could get it all to fit on one sheet of paper. *This comes from years of genealogy and history projects. It's when you reach the point that it becomes too tangled to just write down the connections in a notebook. - Elle...meh, never saw her as an interesting character, just a loony one, so I don't care that much about her emotional development or whether or not she ultimately survives, cause if we presume she is future Noah's mother, she isn't around much is she? Also, yeah I forgot, last time we saw her, she was going into the Pinehearst building to get rid of her power. - I don't know how much of a say agents have in picking their partners. - on a related note to your related note Drew, for a while now I've been harboring the feeling that maybe, kinda, possibly, probably the Company may have been involved in some sort of covert breeding program to produce more mutants that they could easily supervise and control. Also, what I've been wondering for quite some time is this: did Hiro's father have any abilities? and is Hiro's ability just one of the random mutations or was it induced artificially? I don't think it has much to do with the whole thing, but it's just something that's been bugging me. |
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Post by Al on Nov 12, 2008 16:18:45 GMT -5
Also, what I've been wondering for quite some time is this: did Hiro's father have any abilities? and is Hiro's ability just one of the random mutations or was it induced artificially? I don't think it has much to do with the whole thing, but it's just something that's been bugging me. *SORT OF A SPOILER* There's a deleted scene on the Season 2 DVDs where he tells Ando about his power. I don't think it's considered Heroes canon because it never aired, but he says he can analyze probabilities in a situation and determine their outcome in advance, which is how he was able to build his commercial empire. |
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made me all giddy to see the Helix and Villains instead of Heroes, a nice temporary change considering the episode.