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Post by bladestarr on Sept 22, 2008 21:14:31 GMT -5
Dude, just got done watching the season premiere of Heroes, and I've got two things to say....
1. HAHA - to all those people that said that Sylar actually ate people's brains. I never thought he did in the first place, and I love the joke that they made on the show about it. And....
2. Captain John J Sheridan! Bruce Boxleitner made a guest appearance, by favorite captain from any sci fi show! Hopefully he gets a reoccurring role!
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 22, 2008 23:23:32 GMT -5
Some initial observations: 1) I thought the first season carried a lot of allusions to Days of Future Past, but man, it's got nothing on this season so far. 2) So we seem to be heading in the direction that each one of Jessica's personalities has its own superpower? How very Legion. 3) Mohinder is totally Spider-Man. Too bad he hasn't learned the bit about "With great power there must also come great responsibility" yet. 4) While I like how dense the show is, the constant alternate futures are getting really confusing. We still haven't cleared up the last alternate future (plague decimated), because Peter's Irish girl is still stuck there. Now we've got yet another? The appearance of Future Hiro in season 1 was great, because it gave us something to look forward to. And the one episode taking place in the future in season 1 was great as a nice change of pace. But if the show becomes entirely about the future, that's going to get way too confusing. I'm a comic fan, and even I have trouble keeping it all straight. 5) It's about time for Peter ("our" Peter) to do what Future Hiro said: be the one [they] need. Hiro says they talked many times in the future and Peter was an inspiration... okay, Pete, time to step up and become the leader. It's time. -D |
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Post by Lissa on Sept 23, 2008 6:27:17 GMT -5
Adding on to your guys' thoughts-
Maya needs to go. NOW. I don't care how, but she annoys the heck out of me.
It's official: Mohinder puts the "pretty" in "pretty stupid." "Oooh, I just made an exciting new serum from a girl who cries death that could change the world forever! Let's inject it into myself!"
How many shows can I watch that talk about God's divine plan? Nathan's religious awakening was interesting and they definitely picked the right character, but I find that mixing in religion can get scary, especially when the heroes start talking about being angels. Linderman, meet Head!Six.
Who dressed Hiro and Ando for the future? Although it was pretty cool in terms of plot. SO glad to see those two back together. And I liked Daphne. And Hiro's reaction to her. And Hiro saying he should have paid more attention in history class... It looks like we've got the old Hiro back.
I can't remember. Did Future!Peter stick Present!Peter in Jesse's body last season?
Good start. Definitely a good start!
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Post by StarOpal on Sept 23, 2008 8:09:08 GMT -5
He doesn't eat brains *sigh* there goes one of my joys in life. "That's disgusting, Claire." Was pretty funny though.
But Nathan survived again, ha!
Ditto, but add "And I don't know what'll happen, so instead of going back to my apartment I'll just inject myself right here. At the docks. At night. In New York." There are only two constants on this show: Mohinder is stoopid and bad things will happen to Parkman. It's the way of things.
Speaking of Parkman, according to Mrs. Petrelli's dream Papa Parkman and Adam will be back. Or could that be some sort of symbolizing about Matt becoming his dad?
Die Maya!
Whenever Peter and Claire are on screen together it gives me heebie jeebies. Stop with the chemistry, he's your uncle/she's your niece! So, while Sylar is poking around Claire's brain, I turn to the group last night and said, "Wouldn't it be insane if Claire went from rapist, to uncle, to stalker, to Sylar?" Apparently I'm the insane one for thinking these things. That poor girl.
So if the dreaming thing is Mrs. Petrelli's (I love her) power, what did Richard Roundtree do exactly?
I don't think that is Nikki. I think it's either a) the long thought dead Jessica or b) a third sister (which I think would be kinda dumb).
So is that Linderman or is Nathan a little kooky?
I think in the future Hiro saw: Hiro was the villain and Ando was the hero, and that Hiro was just assuming. I love you Hiro and Ando.
EDIT: For spelling and because I can.
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Post by PoolMan on Sept 23, 2008 11:32:27 GMT -5
I can't remember. Did Future!Peter stick Present!Peter in Jesse's body last season? Wow... short term memory much?  Future Peter puts Present Peter in Jesse's body right at the start of the new season (after he shoots Nathan). We just don't see him do it (he immediately pretends to be Present Peter). He also transports Parkman. To Africa. For... some reason. Hm. (Oh, and speaking of which, Parkman talking to the turtle was extremely funny... loved it) Interesting Claire no longer feels pain... we've seen other characters' powers evolve after first use (like Parkman suddenly being able to "send" as well as "receive"), perhaps this is a new phase for Claire? I also like where this leads emotionally for Claire... her self-characterization as the perfect victim is very telling. Her power combined with almost any other (a la Peter or Sylar) is nearly unstoppable. Her power on its own doesn't actually do very much, aside from letting her survive almost any beating. It's interesting that she's really grasping that. I am still loving the show, but I see two major problems with how it's structured. First off, we've introduced some highly, HIGHLY unbalanced characters. Peter and Sylar are both so crazily overpowered compared to almost everyone else, it's a clear case of "Superman Complex". How do you retain dramatic tension when you know the characters can overcome almost anything with their crazy growing power base? (although Claire managing to land the knife in Sylar's chest was extremely excellent). The other big problem I see (and Drew kind of touched on this) is there is so much exposure to the future. At a quick count, there have been no fewer than five characters who can see/travel to the future (Peter, Hiro, Mama Petrelli, Isaac, and Mysterious African Dude), and two who can go to the past (Hiro and Peter). The writers seem to be restricting the travel to the past for moral reasons (Hiro has already resolved he won't go to the past for fear of screwing it up, a lesson Future Peter is discovering). I think the "prohecy" characters are a better way to go... Isaac's paintings were particularly good. They could foreshadow without giving away too much. Good to have it all back on air! |
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Post by StarOpal on Sept 23, 2008 12:02:13 GMT -5
Sylar can also see the future (remember he saw what made Isaac tick).
I was sorta disappointed that Sylar actually got Claire's ability. Like you said, there are some highly unbalanced characters. Also, it kind of changes the character for me. Indestructability was suppose to be the power he was going after, with the other ones getting picked up along the way. Now it just seems 'gotta catch'em all' if he keeps collecting powers. Does that make sense?
Also brings the total of, for sure, indestructible characters up to four. And depending on whether Linderman is real or Nathan's crazy, two possibles. Because if Nathan's crazy it means Adam's blood is still working, which means Claire's blood could still be working on Mr. Bennet. But does that also depend on how Peter and Sylar's powers work? While Sylar's acquired powers seem to work all the time (he can't turn off super hearing in season 1), Peter has to focus on a specific power. Conceivably, if Peter were unconscious and you then stabbed him in the heart, he'd die. Am I over thinking this?
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 23, 2008 12:49:52 GMT -5
First off, we've introduced some highly, HIGHLY unbalanced characters. Peter and Sylar are both so crazily overpowered compared to almost everyone else, it's a clear case of "Superman Complex". How do you retain dramatic tension when you know the characters can overcome almost anything with their crazy growing power base? Agreed. It's not impossible to write good Superman stories (plenty of folks have done it), but there's a reason why his primary "villains" tend to be forces of nature- floods, tornados, earthquakes and the like. Luthor's a great villain, but again, he's at the opposite end of the spectrum: no powers. Hence why the Mimic only appears once a decade and didn't stick around as a member of the X-Men: he's overpowered and he makes all the other characters superfluous. To make him an ongoing character, they had to introduce an alternate universe version with massive restrictions- can only copy 5 powers at once, only has them at half the strength of the original owner, doesn't copy knowledge or abilities. I give the Heroes writers props for trying to take that road with not just a character, but arguably the most central one; however, it's also a really difficult thing to pull off. Time will tell if they can make it work with Peter. -D |
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Post by aargmematey on Sept 24, 2008 1:42:27 GMT -5
While Sylar's acquired powers seem to work all the time (he can't turn off super hearing in season 1), Peter has to focus on a specific power. Conceivably, if Peter were unconscious and you then stabbed him in the heart, he'd die. Am I over thinking this? Peter was pretty...well...dead in Season one when he got stabbed in the head by Sylar with the piece of glass. And when Claire took it out of him, he healed, all by himself. Which, I'm pretty sure, he wasn't conscious for (what with the being dead and such), and wasn't concentrating on. Also, I think maybe Sylar was just able to control his powers easier than Peter, given that he already has the knack for figuring out how things work, and Peter...well...doesn't ( unless that "knack" really IS Sylar's power, in which case Peter WOULD have it, I guess, but maybe he just hasn't needed to use it yet, so he doesn't know he has it...or I'm grasping at straws to fill a plot hole). ANYWAYS...I was definitely entertained by the new episodes. Not sure how I feel about Really Fast Girl, as she was kind of annoying. Oh, but I ABSOLUTELY loved the Ando/Hiro future-fight! So dramatic, and I agree that I think Ando will be on the side of righteousness and Hiro will be on the villainous side for that. Also, I agree with the chemistry between Claire and Peter, and it needing to stop. It is strange, and off-putting, and WHAT DID SHE MEAN at the very beginning of the episode when Future!Claire said "I always loved you," or something like that to Peter? Are they seriously going to go there? |
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Post by StarOpal on Sept 24, 2008 8:49:06 GMT -5
While Sylar's acquired powers seem to work all the time (he can't turn off super hearing in season 1), Peter has to focus on a specific power. Conceivably, if Peter were unconscious and you then stabbed him in the heart, he'd die. Am I over thinking this? Peter was pretty...well...dead in Season one when he got stabbed in the head by Sylar with the piece of glass. And when Claire took it out of him, he healed, all by himself. Which, I'm pretty sure, he wasn't conscious for (what with the being dead and such), and wasn't concentrating on. Also, I think maybe Sylar was just able to control his powers easier than Peter, given that he already has the knack for figuring out how things work, and Peter...well...doesn't ( unless that "knack" really IS Sylar's power, in which case Peter WOULD have it, I guess, but maybe he just hasn't needed to use it yet, so he doesn't know he has it...or I'm grasping at straws to fill a plot hole). ....I forgot about that. Curses! |
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Post by DarthShady on Sept 24, 2008 9:30:29 GMT -5
Ahoy! I return to the forums after much....visiting other forums....
Anyway, although I agree with most of the problems people already cited here, I was overall more than pleased with the new episodes. It was very fun to watch.
I'm betting that Tracy is a new character. At the end of last season, Nikki was trapped in a fire, & seeing how this season picked up at the exact moment we left off, & that Tracy apparently has past with the senator, she has to be a different person. I think it'd be cool if she was Jessica.
I agree that Hiro was the evil one. I also think that his vision of the future will end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing.
Personally, I really liked Daphne. She could be fun.
Ick to the chemistry between Claire & Peter as well. I think that when she said "I always loved you," she may have just meant as family, though. She's much closer to him than Nathan. You can love people in ways that aren't sexual or romantic.
I'm not entirely happy that Sylar can heal now, but I loved the scene with him & Claire. I think they're the 2 best actors on the show (except for Masi of course,) & I was on the edge of my seat as he was tauting her.
Oh, Mo! What'd you have to go & inject yourself for? At least he's getting some. Finally. Also, it looks like there's some seriously whacked side effects, so I think this plot could work as a cautionary tale about messing with evolution.
I'm very glad that Elle is back. I like what they're doing with her so far. Killing off her dad, firing her from the Company, & showing that Peter's not the only one who is powerful enough to battle Sylar. She's really got great control over her power.
Um, that is all for now, I guess. I got nothing else.
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Post by PoolMan on Sept 24, 2008 11:23:00 GMT -5
unless that "knack" really IS Sylar's power, in which case Peter WOULD have it, I guess That "knack" for knowing how things work IS Sylar's innate power - remember his origin as the clock maker. He takes a look at something, instantly knows how it works, and applies that knowledge. I think this is how he figured out how to steal powers in the first place. I also think that he's actively using that power when he's got Claire's brain exposed - he's looking for the part that makes her powers "tick". No pun intended. Now, does Peter have that power? I don't think so... or at least, I can't think of an example of Peter using that ability. |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 24, 2008 12:49:48 GMT -5
Now, does Peter have that power? I don't think so... or at least, I can't think of an example of Peter using that ability. Except if Peter has been near Sylar -- which he has -- then doesn't he have it automatically? He may not be aware that he possesses it, but he should have it. And if he does have it, maybe Mama Petrelli should back off telling him what to do. If he intuitively understands how things work, Forge-style, then maybe he knows what he's doing with the future stuff after all. That sure doesn't seem to be the way things are moving, but who knows. -D |
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Post by PoolMan on Sept 24, 2008 14:35:41 GMT -5
You may be right, Drew. But I wasn't saying he doesn't have the ability, but that I can't recall any clear demonstration that he does.
The thing I think the writers are doing very correctly with our glimpses of the future is limiting them to the scope of the character we see them through. Hiro has absolutely no context for how Ando can shoot red lightning at him, why he would so, and why Tokyo appears to be falling beneath some incoming explosive force. He just gets a glimpse, and is forced to return.
It's very much like the "exploding New York" painting from season one; Isaac's visions of the future were always just enough to hint, never enough to tell the whole story. Same goes with the season one "future battle" between Peter and Sylar. The door between us and the action slams shut so that we can't clearly tell what the heck's going on.
That works well with seers like Peter, Sylar, and Mama P. You can impose creative restrictions on what they see, and how it's interpreted. But they need to stop mucking around with giving Peter and Hiro the ability to just GO to the future, unless they somehow rein in what they see.
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Post by Storm_Rider on Sept 25, 2008 17:41:12 GMT -5
I apologize right here and now for the extra-long rant, hope you have the patience to go through it.
Ah, the new season of Heroes didn't disappoint me at all, so let's jump right in...
The series is starting to get a vibe of continuously stopping one bad future from happening, while replacing it with an even crappier one.
The first time they stopped New York from being wiped off the face of the planet, only to replace that future with the "plague future", which has been left somewhat unresolved since we still have no idea what was supposed to trigger the plague.
Now we're treated to an alternate future, where as far as we're concerned, there is no plague but there is the whole "Days of Future Past" thing going on. By going back in time and stopping Nathan from giving his speech, "future Peter"(interesting how in both futures he has a scar on his face that he keeps as a memento) basically stops that future from happening and replaces it with the future Hiro sees. Peter himself acknowledges that things aren't going as they're supposed to so I think we can be pretty sure we can only talk about the future Hiro sees from now on, as being the one they have to stop from happening.
The problem with this would be the African Seer, and his depiction of a shattering Earth. Just as he points out, Parkman wasn't supposed to be there, hence the future isn't how he painted it, yet what we saw in Hiro's future sure looked like it. It is true that the globe is shattered by the eternal symbol (points at avatar) so one could interpret it as being symbolic, but Isaac's paintings were never symbolic, they were snapshots of things to come. Also there must be another seer in America because the exact same image is on the warehouse wall in the scenes with Mohinder.
Talking about Mohinder, does anyone else think there's a connection between his "skin condition" and his intake of milk? I dunno but those growths led me to think of Spike's powers from X-Men Evolution and how it evolved in him wearing a bone exo-skeleton. So milk, calcium, bones, you see the connection.
Ando and Hiro, oh how you've been missed, yet from the start there is a definite change in their relationship, Hiro is now the one who does things without thinking and Ando is the voice of reason. If that future does come to pass, tell you what, Hero or Villain Ando deserves some super-powers of his own; considering what we've seen till now in the show, I think it's kinda early to say one is the hero and the other is the villain in that particular scene, there is no guarantee that Ando kills Hiro with the blast, and I don't think it's that far fetched to think of a scenario where Hiro makes a mistake with good intentions and get manipulated by someone(Adam) and Ando has to put it all right again. Interesting enough, after Hiro tells Ando that in the future Ando kills him, Ando says that he is his friend, now I seem to have it embedded in my brain that a lot of heroes/villains throughout comic history have been friends (I'm sure Drew can shed some light on this).
The final thing that leads me to think that the Hiro-Ando relationship will be more than it seams in the future, is Mama P.'s dream. That's a crucial point which I think they set in the beginning of the second episode to distract attention from it. That's where we see the most clear polarization between characters in things to come, on the one side we have: Hiro, Parkman, Noah, Peter and Clare all dead, and on the other hand Adam, Tracy, Papa Parkman, Knox, and of course Sylar.
Now since we don't know how exactly Mama P.'s power works, I think it's safe to apply dream "logic" upon her dreams, in that they don't show exactly what happens, meaning I don't think they all die in that place and all at once, rather that they are all connected maybe to her somehow, who knows, since she says she's Sylar's mom, she could just as well be Parkman's and Hiro's.
As for the whole God angle, now I hate when deities are brought into the mix (for further reading on the subject see my "God Pill" rant from "I am Legend"), but in this case I think it's there just as a clever ruse used by the writers to detract somewhat from the central storyline.
Also apparently Nathan can see dead people. Still waiting to see more about that to get a feeling for the thing.
And there is also this mystery formula; I think the Quicksilver chick will sooner or later be brought to the Hero side, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 25, 2008 21:26:48 GMT -5
Now since we don't know how exactly Mama P.'s power works, I think it's safe to apply dream "logic" upon her dreams, in that they don't show exactly what happens, meaning I don't think they all die in that place and all at once That's what I've sort of been wondering about. The dream showed the escapees allied with Adam, Maury, and Sylar. But Adam's the one who started the company that kept all the escapees imprisoned, and Sylar would be more interested in adding them to his collection than allying with them. Even for a show that has characters switch allegiances as often as Heroes does, that's pushing it. But it could very well be just a metaphor. (I'm sure Drew can shed some light on this). Pre-Crisis, Superboy and Lex Luthor were friends. Lex decided to use his genius to create a serum to eliminate Superboy's vulnerability to kryptonite. However, the solution was unstable and exploded, making all of Lex's hair fall out, and he decided Superboy had made it happen because he was jealous of Lex's genius. They've been enemies ever since. Spider-Man's best friend's dad was his worst enemy, and his best friend eventually took over the mantle. Actually, Spider-Man's probably the king of having friends/acquaintances turn into villains, including the Lizard, the Jackal, Morbius (I think), etc. Batman's childhood friend became the villain Hush. And, of course, The Long Halloween introduced the notion that Batman considered Harvey Dent a friend prior to his accident. Professor X and Magneto were good friends when they worked together in Israel. Daredevil and Elektra were lovers in college. Speaking of college, Reed Richards and Victor von Doom were friends until the accident that scarred Doom's face. Zoom used to be good friends with the Flash... in fact, Zoom still considers them friends and rationalizes the horrible things he does to Wally as an attempt to make him a better hero in the long run. He thinks Wally will thank him for it eventually. -D |
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