Heroes

[StarOpal]

Two thoughts:

So is the bad future stuff Maya's plague powers, or did the Company keep messing around with the virus and, just like Mohinder said, spread?

Is Peter using Hiro's power, or is this Charles Deveaux's power?

Hiro's would be the obvious, but since Peter's doing this unconsciously I think taking along someone else would be a bit too much.

[Storm_Rider]

I believe Peter was using Hiro's powers because as we've seen both in the series and in the graphic novel, most of them notice their powers in moment of great distress, it is usually anger of fear just like Nathan flew out of his car when he was in grave danger, and just like when he flew to save Peter when he sensed danger. The same thing applies to D.L., Eden and Wireless.

So I think that in that particular moment when he wishes he would know what the future brings him, it is a moment of great distress, you have to look at it through his eyes: you have no memory of who you are, you have all these special abilities, and apparently you have to save the world (again, but he doesn't know that yet), I think it would make anyone at least a bit jittery.

Now for your first point, interesting that you bring up "plague" as a definition for Maya's powers, in Odessa when Bennet finds all the paintings there is one that shows someone who I believe to be Peter with a Biohazard sign in the left part of the painting and another man in the right. Peter also appears to have some sort of scar on his forehead but it could just be the drawing.

(However, it could be that the modified virus mutated and started infecting the general population.)

If you pay close attention to the paintings I think two of them came true in the meanwhile, one of them is a painting of Claire on the stairs of her high school after being dropped by her stalker-boyfriend, and another shows a hand holding a vial, and I think this is Mohinder's hand holding the vial with the modified virus. The ones that have not yet come true are one in which apparently Niki is furious at a door, the one with peter in it, and one with Mohinder, his nose bandaged, and a smoking gun.

Oh and again the cockroach fixation, in the graphic novel, Molly's nightmare is filled with them, what could be the writers gearing us up for with all of these cockroach references?

[StarOpal]

I think this is my favorite episode of the season so far. There was a lot going on so I'm still wrapping my head around it. I even had a dream about it.

I actually liked Storm Rider's version of the dragon heart (wait, what does Sean Connery have to do with anything?!) scenario better, but oh well. I was actually shocked at who Adam is (but I was really tired, so if it was painfully obvious, I'd like it noted I wasn't in top form), and I can't wait to see where this goes.

Claire, restraining order. Not making out. Seriously.

It was the Chanti virus. Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how the Maya/Alejandro/Sylar storyline will fit into all this.

Okay, I was watching with a friend and she said that she thinks that a) Mrs. Petrelli does, in fact, have powers, b) that her power is restoring memory, and c) that's why her and The Haitian were all buddy buddy last season (two halves kind of thing, like Maya and Alejandro). I think she does have some sort of power, but I don't think that's it. Thoughts?

I love you Officer Parkman! Hiro and Ando together 4evah! Mohinder, you're such a dofus, never change.

[Storm_Rider]

Yes your friend is right, this episode gave us the confirmation that Mrs. Petrelli does indeed have powers when she told Peter: "You are the most powerful of us all" - and I would have to agree since as oppose to Sylar he doesn't have to eat anyone's brains in order to absorb their powers. And yes it is possible that her power is to restore memory OR it could be a kind of suggestive power just like Eden's was.

To tell you the truth I kinda saw the Adam bit coming this episode, because I got to thinking since Peter survived a nuclear explosion, where does the regeneration power end, what are its limits? Wouldn't it just start continually refreshing the cells once the body has reached it's maximum potential which usually is in it's mid 20s? It would appear so.

About the future, well wouldn't you know it, the virus DID jump species and got into the general population as well, kudos to The Company...again. It's interesting that they said 93% because I know of a theory which states that for any virus that could sprout up, about 10% of the world's population would develop immunity. Of course, this is not the case here since I think this is a genetically engineered virus but still a nice correlation.

It will be interested to see how Maya/Alejandro/Sylar AND Micah/His Cousin AND Claire/Bennet/Fly Boy will all fit into this, because as we've seen in the future, there is only mention of the virus outbreaks nothing about Sylar coming back or people bleeding black sludge.

Also I'm gonna put this one out there now, I think Micah's cousin will have a larger impact than we think at this moment (because she was saved from testing the virus and this is like one of the unwritten rules or story-writing), and it is possible that Hiro will have a most crucial role in this one as well, since Adam (I think) is doing all of this just to get to Hiro.

Now I believe that the only paintings that have yet to come to pass are the last ones, Mohinder with the smoking gun and Bennet shot, and I really do NOT want to believe that Mohinder kills Bennet because that would massively suck.

And here is another thought, I think there's more than meets the eye in in the last painting. We see Bennet shot in the head and in the background amids the shadows a blond girl, most probably Claire kissing someone, what if that scene doesn't imply that the two of them killed him, just that they were sneaking at night and Isaac just happened to see that snapshot before they would realize that Bennet is dead. I dunno, I just don't want to think that Claire could have something to do with killing her dad and getting some sort of high out of it.

[TheLuckyOne]

Anyone else think Mohinder's "confession" to Bob sounded kinda forced? I'm pretty sure that's still part of the plan between he and Bennett; same with Bennett leaving fingerprints at the crime scene, as no matter how stressed out he was, nobody who did that kind of work for twenty years AND remembers to stage a break-in is then sloppy enough to leave prints. Has to be a set-up.

Re: the Adam reveal, I didn't necessarily guess it was Kensei, but I've been thinking for a few episodes now that he would survive through his power to the present day (since Hiro had to come back sometime).

So Caitlin's kinda screwed, huh? Way to dump your girlfriend in an alternate future that you and your Hero buddies are going to prevent from happening, Peter. That's one way to ensure a definitive break-up.

Also, while it was a powerful scene, the bit with Bennett killing his old mentor last episode really got to me... I know it accomplished its goal in doing so, but man, so much for his redemption. Way to hammer home that whole "hell" angle. (On the other hand, if I'd just consigned myself to eternal torment and found out my daughter was going to speed it along by dating a creepy stalker, guess I'd be a bit peeved too.)

Am I the only one who got a real "Heathers" vibe from the prank Claire and West pulled last week?

-D

[Lissa]

Nope- I got that vibe, too. I can't stand West. Claire really needs better taste.

I really enjoyed the last episode, but gosh darn it, what do I have to do to get some interaction between Matt and Mohinder? I'm not talking slash, just... come on. If you're going to set up two strangers raising a daughter together, you really need to give some indication that there's a reason for it. I mean, they don't even seem to LIKE each other, and did Mohinder actually ever CALL Matt and tell him he was taking Molly to the Company? ::grumble::

I'm so glad Hiro and Ando are back together, though. They were one of the highlights for me last season.

[TheLuckyOne]

Thoughts on tonight's episode? Some questions were wrapped up nicely, others still up in the air... as you'd expect from Heroes, I guess.

-Peter probably got the most resolution, since we now know exactly what happened to him. Kristen Bell... uh. My wife reads these boards, so I'll just say: they chose some very flattering outfits for her.

You know, color coordinated.

-Maya and Alejandro still hold no interest for me. Sorry, they don't. Cheating hussy wife, yawn, Maya's power kills people. Was their background a question anyone really wanted answered? They've actually accomplished the impossible and made Sylar dull. Who'da thunk?

-Oooh, that Mama Petrelli. And yet, is that the entire reason Heidi is keeping Nathan from his kids? One claim from his mom that could be easily dispelled by a halfway competent psychologist? How did Heidi manage to legally bar him from visiting the kids? Either that explanation has massive holes in it, or there's more we haven't been told yet.

Or the writer's strike made them scramble to resolve it and this is the result. Hmmm. Which brings us to...

-DL's ignominious death. What? Shot by a pissed gangbanger in a club? I found myself wishing he'd died in that fire instead. I might be wrong, it's happened once or twice before, but I have a feeling they had a BIG arc in mind for Niki/Jessica/Gina that got forestalled by the strike and required hasty rewriting/delay to next season. In its place: lame death for DL. Bah.

-On the negative side: no Hiro and Ando. Also bah.

-On the positive side: no West. Hooray!

-Adam's healing blood. Cool in effect, but it sure does make you wonder why the Company is bothering trying to get Claire. You need a healer's blood to fight the plague. You have:

a) an innocent high schooler whose father is the baddest motherlover on three continents and knows all your tricks; and
b) a criminal you're already trying to recapture for unrelated reasons.

How about, I don't know... devoting all your resources to finding the one who's actually guilty of something? Molly awake + Mohinder and Matt cooperating + Maurie incapacitated = they can find Adam. And by extension Peter.

Which of course brings us to the writer's strike. I didn't know if they'd just go on indefinite hiatus come December, but the preview clips for next week sure made it sound like they're going to try to wrap up the season. I dunno... I may be wrong, but I have a feeling season 2 of Heroes is always going to be the one people look back at and think, "Gee, I wonder what could have been if it had played out the way it was supposed to..."

(But on the other hand, maybe we'll think, "Boy, it sure was refreshing to have the same story wrapped up in half the time. They should strike every year!")

One final thought: I know it's unlikely, but there's still a small part of me hoping Adam has turned over a new leaf. He hasn't done anything villainous (that we've seen) in present day, we have only Bob's word that he turned evil. A millenium is a long time to nurse a grudge and be a bastard. Is it possible he actually is on the side of the angels now, and everyone but he and Peter is in the wrong?

Probably not, but you never know.

-D

[Storm_Rider]

I would have never guessed that Peter recovered from the explosion so fast that he would not only be conscious, but use his flying ability to save his brother.

I made a joke earlier about this but could Bob really be Kristen Bell's character's father?

I don't think Maya and Alejandro hold any interest to anyone, but I have to think that considering their powers they will play an important role either by themselves or by Sylar eating some brains.

Well we've had real confirmation in this episode that Mom Petrelli's powers could be suggestive but unlike Eden, she has to touch her target. Nathan could have felt responsible for not listening to Peter from the get-go and thus not in the mood to cope with the responsibilities of married life. At least this explains why he sees that damaged reflexion of his in mirrors.

I was also very disappointed by D.L.'s death, there was a thread here some time ago about Dying like a punk or punk deaths or something, well that was one of them, it totally sucked.

It is really intriguing why Bob wants Claire, since it's quite obvious that Adam and Claire share the same ability, so it's either that they can't get blood from Adam, but I don't see how that could be unless he has learned to control his ability to such an extent when a sering would be introduced in his body he could coagulate his blood around the needle, I dunno. I think he wants Bennet because he defected in order to save Claire and he wants him dead and Claire as a secondary prize.

It is quite true that we don't know Adam's reasons yet, and we only have Bob's word that he was a baddie, but if we've learned anything from the Company people is that no one tells the whole truth, the bastards.

Now it's pretty clear that all or at least most of our heroes inherited their mutation from their parents, and considering that Mom Petrelli, Charles Devaux, Bob, Matt's dad and Lieberman had powers, one could assume that the rest of the original 12 also did. So I'm curious what was Hiro's dad's power, if indeed he had one? And could his sister also be a sleeper mutant?

OK now I just read the synopsis of the next episode and the title states: When agendas clash a hero dies. What the hell? Damn writers strike.

Check this out, you're right: www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a79660/tim-kring-we-have-a-real-finale.html#article_continue

[StarOpal]

You know I always thought it was pretty stupid how Matt got shot about five times, was taken away on a gurney, and didn't look so hot last seen - but DL, who got shot once and walked away, died.

... I think I prefered stupid death option 1. Especially since, in theory, he can let a bullet pass through him. I mean you set up an episode with him as a fireman and another Niki personalitiy and... that's.... it? Meh.

About Claire and Adam. I think the virus was originally created as a way to stop or kill Adam, but he escaped before it was ready (since they were still just testing it on Micah's cousin, which would've been after Adam escaped). So now while they need Claire to maybe fix their "Oops, Mohinder's blood got broke" mistake, I think they really want her to in order to test what the effect of the virus is on someone with Adam like powers.

And Mr. Nakamura doesn't necessarily need powers. If it's true that Adam is the one who brought the Company together, and that he's been holding a grudge for 400 years. Then I suppose its possible that he brought in the Nakamuras under the cover of financial backing and/or the family carrying a recessive gene. Of course there's got to be more than one Hiro Nakamura in Japan so that could be kind of a stretch.

[Storm_Rider]

Hot damn that was a great episode, I'll write a longer post tommorow after I have time to digest it better.

[TheLuckyOne]

Holy crap. I'll admit, I totally didn't see that coming. Seems so obvious in retrospect (as these things always do), but completely off my radar.

I have to say, though I usually don't approve of the whole fake death thing (on TV, at least), I'm really glad they went that path. Because for a scary 5 minutes there I was asking myself, "Can this show really survive without the HRG?" And I really wasn't sure.

Okay, so something new to talk about... unless they're asking us to believe that Noah wasn't really dead (bollocks), it looks like Claire's blood has the ability not only to heal, but to actually raise the dead. That's a major shift that could impact the entire world, and I don't like what it says about Claire's future prospects, because either A) she has to die or be otherwise completely incapacitated, B) they have to impose some arbitrary restrictions on the blood to explain why it couldn't do that for everyone, or C) we have to believe that, when she finds out, Claire won't dedicate her life to restoring the recently dead and healing the sick. Thoughts?

Anyway, the show has definitely shifted back into full swing, and I'm loving it. But only two episodes left, argh!

-D

[Storm_Rider]

Holy crap is right. Warning long-ass post ahead.

The resurrecting blood issue is really bugging me. Don't get me wrong, I am so relieved that Noah is alive, the show really couldn't have survived without this exponent of moral gray territory, and like I've said before, I've grown to like his character.

But this is the problem with introducing super-powers in a real-life scenario and going a bit too far. I have nothing against the fact that Claire's (and i believe by expanding it to Peter and Adam, Peter and Adam's blood) can cure mortally wounded or damaged living organisms, and living is the key word. I have no problem with that, because it would mean that there is still blood flow through the body and that the special blood can circulate and do its magic. But inserting blood into a dead body in which all the internal mechanisms have stopped, and where the heart is not pumping anymore, that's where I start to have a problem.

How exactly does the blood work in a dead body? Despite the fact that it's super-powered blood, I don't know if it has a mind of its own and "knows" where to go and what to fix if the brain is dead. And let's be clear here people, Noah got shot in the eye, that would normally imply some brain damage also. I'm hoping to hear some thoughts from you guys and gals on this one.

Continuing this thread of thought, in the future the mutated virus jumps species and infects the general non-mutated population as well. Claire, Peter and Adam have the ability called spontaneous cellular regeneration which prevents them from dying, and allows them to grow back any and all organ or body part lost, and apparently allows their blood to resurrect other dead bodies as well. This is where I cannot not think of Wolverine and the mutant plague, Cable went through a lot of crap just to be sure that Wolverine is the first or at least among the first to be infected, knowing that his immune system would fight it off successfully. Considering the future one must assume that: 1) somehow through a certain weird coincidence Claire, Adam and Peter are somehow incapacitated or at the North Pole, or that 2) their power doesn't protect them from diseases. My second option wouldn't do much sense because all diseases cause a type of cell damage in order to kill us, so their ability should be able to regenerate those cells and either live in perpetuity with the disease OR their immune system is also turbo-charged and almost spontaneously produce antibodies to any known or unknown disease, even if it is a disease that attacks their abilities.

I'm gonna wait on some feedback on these things because these are the kind of things you can completely find a satisfying answer only through heated debate

Well, it appears that Bob is indeed Elle's father, and I believe I made a joke about that in an earlier thread.

Onto Hiro. I have to say that what the writers did here was absolutely great, not only did they offer this character closure about his father's death, but they also offered his father a last chance to pay his respects to his wife's grave before he died. Also the fact that Hiro now knows that Adam is alive and that he killed his father, means that he will be prepared and wanting to avenge his father's death, great times to come.

But as you said, only 2 episodes, i think the last episode will be one huge cliffhanger. They simply cannot tie in so many different stories in the last 2 episodes this will be something like season 2a and the next season will be 2b.

[Lordmoon]

The deal with the blood is less Wolverine and more like Angel.

Wolverine's healing ability is limited to himself and, just like in Heroes, he's able to regenerate any damage as long as his brain is protected. On more then one occasion his entier body was completely destoroyed but he was able to regenerate due to his brain being protected in the adamantite laced skull.

Angel's healing ability is directly related to blood and has worked to help heal others. Even bringing them back from the dead at times. Although I do agree with you that unless the heart is still there to cerculate the blood it should not have any effect on the dead (unless it's injected directly into the heart?)

[CheshireKat]

So season finale...

The one word that comes to mind is...abrupt.

Ultimately disappointing. Stupid writers strike.

[Lordmoon]

Yeah, thirteen episodes short. I'm hopeing that they have a late season of the final thirteen episodes before doing the official season 3. Sort of Season 2A, Season 2B sort of deal.

PS - Hiro is one vicious SOB! Love that guy!