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Post by PoolMan on Apr 28, 2009 9:31:25 GMT -5
Well now, THAT was interesting. SPOILERS Never say never in a show populated with time travellers, future seers, and unkillable healers, but it looks like they actually killed Nathan! I'm very surprised, actually. Disappointed that (once again) the big battle with Sylar takes place on the other side of a door (hooray for budgetary restraints), confused that they had Claire's Miracle Blood in ready supply but didn't use it, and severely creeped out by the new Sylar/Nathan. I think they probably didn't need to ALREADY show that Sylar's personality or innate abilities will creep through, but still, an interesting turn. Hiro looks like he's about done, until the writers come up with a way to make him powerful again. Another sword?  Tracey's back, which we all saw coming, but I'm okay with that. Apparently Peter was able to choose which of Sylar's powers he took, based on his comment. Nice move, Pete! So, for as long as Sylar's Nathan persona holds, who will be the villain? |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Apr 28, 2009 10:29:05 GMT -5
Hmm. The two or three episodes before this finale had me reaching for the remote again to un-DVR the show, but it WAS a powerful ending, I'll give them that. Still on the fence.
The Nathan/Sylar trick, who knew they would go there? I don't know if they intentionally lifted it from the source material or not, but it's another X-Men plotline. A couple of years ago, a team of X-related characters called the Exiles (they hop from dimension to dimension correcting mistakes, kinda like Sliders) were fighting an old X-Men enemy called Proteus. Proteus had the power to reshape reality, but because of his immense power, he would burn through his physical form in a matter of days or even hours, so he had to keep jumping from one person's body to the next. Doing so destroyed the original owner's mind, leaving Proteus in charge.
After pulling that trick on one of the Exiles and killing him*, Proteus jumped into another of them, Morph**. But because Morph's power was shapeshifting, his cells were constantly regenerating, so Proteus would never burn the body out. The Exiles finally defeated Proteus by using a technological MacGuffin to make Proteus think he WAS Morph. He remained a member of the team after that, but the other Exiles had to constantly live with the knowledge that their actual friend was dead and "Morph" was really a murderous psychopath who just thought he was the real deal. Not a comfortable position to be in... and, I think we'll all agree, not too far removed from what the Heroes writers just did.
-D
*The Mimic, actually, the character Peter borrows heavily from
**Fans of the 90s X-Men cartoon may remember Morph. He was originally an old X-Men foe called the Changeling, who reformed and impersonated Professor X for a time, dying in the line of duty
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Post by StarOpal on Apr 28, 2009 13:36:49 GMT -5
So, while Sylar is poking around Claire's brain, I turn to the group last night and said, "Wouldn't it be insane if Claire went from rapist, to uncle, to stalker, to Sylar?" Apparently I'm the insane one for thinking these things. That poor girl. I was just kidding. Really. So we continue to end the season with Nathan dying and then come up with some craziness to save him (sorta). I admit, I was shocked they actually went through with it this time. I'd ask how he survived the last time since Linderman was just a mind game and therefore couldn't actually heal anyone, but that would be foolishness since, as we know, those story lines never happened. How creepy, especially after this episode, is it that the guy Claire thinks is her biodad is Sylar? Eeeew. *heebie jeebies* I thought it was a bit odd that Sylar appeared to have the Puppetmaster power, since he never killed him. Sylar doesn't fly right? And he didn't bother to open Nathan up. How do they explain that Nathan can't fly anymore? While I believe that it is, in fact, Tracy, if they make it the missing genetic experiment sister (there was three right? Nikki, Tracy, and... another one? I'm getting Hannah, but that could be absolutely wrong) that'll be dumb. If they kill off Hiro, I may have to stop watching.  So what was the real point of going out to the middle of the desert? I hope they do something more with that next season or it's really going to irk me that that went nowhere. |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Apr 28, 2009 14:20:17 GMT -5
I thought it was a bit odd that Sylar appeared to have the Puppetmaster power, since he never killed him. Sylar doesn't fly right? And he didn't bother to open Nathan up. How do they explain that Nathan can't fly anymore? You know, I was wondering the exact same thing. Well, first, why Sylar didn't steal Doyle's power when he had the chance... sure, he needed someone to give to Danko, but there's gotta be someone with a less useful power he could have nabbed and kept Doyle's power himself. Maybe he figured he could simulate Doyle's power with his telekinesis (which, I guess this episode showed he can, though I didn't know he had that much fine control to be able to make Claire pour wine and all), but you'd still think that would be a good one to have. But second, yeah, the flying thing. I was trying to remember if he'd been shown recently killing someone with flight, because you're right, Sylar doesn't have that power. True, lots of comic characters use telekinesis to fly, but from the first season (when Peter tackled him off the steps) all the way up till now when he's using a car to get everywhere, Sylar's never shown that he can do that. I guess you could argue that he could do it briefly for the purposes of that fight but not for a protracted period of time, but then how do you get around the fact that "Nathan" can no longer fly for long distances? Unless they're suggesting that Sylar's DNA shapeshifting now allows him to copy powers just by touching people, but he's already so insanely overpowered and dear God pleeeeease get him off the show already. Seriously, I wish Zachary Quinto nothing but the best, but the character has far outlived his usefulness. Quick three episode arc at the beginning of next season: Sylar starts to remember who he is, but Nathan's personality is too strong and takes permanent control of the body, no more Sylar, the end. That's what needs to happen. -D |
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Post by PoolMan on Apr 28, 2009 19:20:24 GMT -5
You know, I was wondering the exact same thing. Well, first, why Sylar didn't steal Doyle's power when he had the chance... Well, they've also established that Sylar doesn't have to kill or open their heads up to take anyone's power... he took Elle's electricity much the same way Original Peter did. Could be he took Doyle's puppetry and then served him up to Danko, and could be he took Nathan's flight while they fought. Let's face it, Nathan Vs Sylar isn't much of a fight, flight or no. I was really hoping to see what Peter could do in that match. But second, yeah, the flying thing. I was trying to remember if he'd been shown recently killing someone with flight, because you're right, Sylar doesn't have that power. I remember back to Season 1 when Sylar just kept jumping from place to place (and surviving being shot!), and wondering when those powers were going to surface again. he's already so insanely overpowered and dear God pleeeeease get him off the show already. I still like Sylar as a villain, so I don't know if I'd push him off, but if they won't, they need to curb him like they did Peter. Or you're right, he becomes too powerful. |
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Post by StarOpal on Apr 28, 2009 20:57:16 GMT -5
Well, they've also established that Sylar doesn't have to kill or open their heads up to take anyone's power... he took Elle's electricity much the same way Original Peter did. Could be he took Doyle's puppetry and then served him up to Danko, and could be he took Nathan's flight while they fought. Yeah, but can he still do that? I mean that was part of the 'let's pretend that never happened' season. We haven't had any hints of it since. This could also explain why no one thought to use Claire's blood. Because it's not supposed to count anymore. Just an aside, not anyone's post specifically, I meant "How are they going to explain to Nathan why he can't fly anymore?" I wasn't very clear and it bugged me. |
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Apr 28, 2009 21:34:28 GMT -5
Well, they've also established that Sylar doesn't have to kill or open their heads up to take anyone's power... he took Elle's electricity much the same way Original Peter did. Could be he took Doyle's puppetry and then served him up to Danko, and could be he took Nathan's flight while they fought. I see where you're coming from. My impression of Sylar's "empathy" thing from the one instance where he used it (with Elle) is that it takes both time and concentration, and possibly even the consent (conscious or subconscious) of the subject. It wasn't until he and Elle truly "connected" (bleh) that Sylar could use her power. So while I could maaaaybe believe that he might have done that with Doyle (although I can't imagine that current Sylar wouldn't just kill him), I can't believe that he'd be able to pull it off in the middle of a fight with Nathan. Even leaving aside the fact that it was a mistake in the first place (Peter's the most empathic character, that's why his power makes sense) to give him that ability, there wouldn't have been time. I remember back to Season 1 when Sylar just kept jumping from place to place (and surviving being shot!), and wondering when those powers were going to surface again. I don't even mind if they give him flight, it's just that we need some consistency. There are fights he's been in where flight would have served him well, to say nothing of that interminable road trip. Pick one and stick with it. I still like Sylar as a villain, so I don't know if I'd push him off, but if they won't, they need to curb him like they did Peter. Or you're right, he becomes too powerful. Ah, see that's where we differ. Sylar was great in season 1 and even season 2 was better to him than most. But the fuzzy motivations of season 3.1, the attempts to turn him heroic, his feelings that appear and disappear with no cause whatsoever, the "Hunger" that's never been mentioned again, the empathy that also hasn't been touched on again... you take a character who's supposed to be a terrifying serial killer, understanding that the textbook definition of sociopathy is the inability to empathize with anyone else, and tell me his actual power is empathy? Are you on crack? And then the daddy issues of season 3.2, the constant whining, the sidekick, the illogical alliances, the identity issues. Norman Bates was scary because he was fixated on his mother and was a serial killer on the inside, but seemed like a meek, harmless guy on the surface. Sylar acts like a calculated serial killer all the time, when he's not crippled with self-doubt or identity issues, or trying to be good for his mommy (all three of them) or daddy or girlfriend, and then he kills people because he wants to, or because he needs to, or because he's just a douche. Sometimes he's remorseful, sometimes not. You gets about one truly chilling moment every four episodes, which was great when he only appeared every fourth episode. Now that he's in EVERY episode, that's a hell of a lot of boring self-pity and parental issues to wade through for a small return. Whoo... that one kind of away from me there, didn't it? Sorry. It's just that that's the danger of humanizing your villains- sometimes it works (Magneto being a great example), but you can't do it with serial killers because they're supposed to be inhuman and unfeeling. It's what makes them scary. Sylar is no longer scary as a villain, and he's not going to be a hero, so he has no purpose on the show. That's just one man's opinion, but unless they're going to restore him to a background character who pops up once every five or six episodes to really throw the fear of God into you -- and you know they're not -- then it's time for him to go. -D |
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Post by PoolMan on Apr 30, 2009 11:41:51 GMT -5
unless they're going to restore him to a background character who pops up once every five or six episodes to really throw the fear of God into you -- and you know they're not -- then it's time for him to go. I agree 100% that's where Sylar's most effective - when he's used sparingly and threateningly. In the first season, on those rare occasions where you'd hear that growling that was his leitmotif, the hairs on the back of your neck stood up. I'd love to see Sylar stay on the show, but only if used properly. (used infrequently, and kept to the shadows) Overexposure is the key weakness of Heroes - once any one character gains too much time in the spotlight, they usually become less interesting. I'm thinking the Haitian (who was originally almost as creepy as Sylar was), Linderman, Father Petrelli, Bob, Elle, and Sylar. (there are exceptions, in my opinion - Noah being the biggest in my mind) However, you make an excellent point. You know that Zachary Quinto has officially gotten too big for his britches to simply accept what amounts to a cameo role, as Sylar was in the first season. (the release of Star Trek is only going to make it worse!) I'm personally really curious to see how long they don't use Quinto with the current storyline. They've made it obvious (again, way too quickly) that Sylar's personality won't stay buried in his Nathan guise forever (and one of the recurring themes of Sylar is "I gotta be me"). But for the moment, Adrian Pasdar is playing Sylar. I have a hard time believing that the show is willing to cut either actor, so it'll be interesting to see how they strike a balance. |
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Post by StarOpal on Sept 18, 2009 15:51:58 GMT -5
So is anyone excited for the new season?
I just can't seem to find the energy. The promo plays on TV and I just kind of glance up and go back to what I was doing.
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Sept 18, 2009 16:14:59 GMT -5
No. I know after season 3.1 I said I didn't think I was going to watch 3.2 and then I did anyway, but this time I mean it - I'm out. I'm actually glad you brought it up, Eunice, so I can remember to take it off the DVR. You guys can tell me how season 4 is.
(I hate to say it, but I'm actually consciously not watching FlashForward because I don't want another Heroes/Lost-type series. Not only did Heroes turn me off itself, it made me not want to watch another show.)
-D
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Post by PoolMan on Sept 18, 2009 17:33:58 GMT -5
I haven't seen the promo.
I'll likely watch it, and it'll be on probation. That's it, Heroes, prove yourself to me!
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dex
Ghostbuster
So what colour is the sky in your world?
Posts: 343
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Post by dex on Sept 18, 2009 17:58:05 GMT -5
I stopped the Hero worship (Thank you, thank you, I also do weddings and kid's parties.) even earlier. Same with Prison Break. The first time I had this kind of feeling was X-Files. (I hate to say it, but I'm actually consciously not watching FlashForward because I don't want another Heroes/Lost-type series. Not only did Heroes turn me off itself, it made me not want to watch another show.) Exactly. That's precisely the reason I never watched Lost. And it's even worse: It retcons the fun of the early seasons/episodes right out of your memory. After the first half season of Prison Break, I was hyped. Looking back, I've come to feel as meh about it as about the rest of it. Similar, but not quite so bad with Heroes. |
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Post by Al on Sept 19, 2009 0:52:35 GMT -5
I'm also giving it a pass.
I noticed in Best Buy the other day that Heroes Season 3 was out on DVD. More importantly, I noticed that I didn't care. It takes a lot to make me give up on a TV show, but these guys made it seem like they were trying to turn me off.
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Post by StarOpal on Sept 24, 2009 23:00:13 GMT -5
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Post by TheLuckyOne on Oct 20, 2009 11:54:01 GMT -5
So is anyone still watching it? Poolie, care to tell the rest of us whether we're missing anything this season? The recaplets at TW/oP are... not complimentary, but do you feel they've gotten back on track?
-D
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